Originally Posted by TedMosby

Going by stats alone, yes LeBron is "better". Stats tend to get inflated when you don't have a great supporting cast, and LeBron didn't have an excellent one.

You don't need stats to see LeBron's impact on the court. He's the primary playmaker, an excellent rebounder, a top notched scorer, and at the moment, a better perimeter AND post defender than Kobe.

The guy is two time reigning MVP, former scoring champion and is only 25 years old... People hate on LeBron a lot, but they don't realize Jordan didn't get his first ring until he was 27 years old. The guy is HANDS DOWN better than Kobe, he doesn't disrupt the offense when looking for his own shot like Kobe does, and actually does make his teammates better.

The casual fan may accept that Kobe > LeBron, but that's because the casual fan doesn't actually watch games; the casual fan listens to cruddy NBA analysts ride Kobe and use second hand info in their arguments rather than watching the games and coming up with their own opinions.

Originally Posted by Scrub

Lebron "Lebum" James= the biggest sellout in NBA history...

sure he'll win titles in south beach, but thats taking the easy way and worse yet does not compare to Jordan stayed who CARRIED a team built for him over the years to 6 titles.

If Lebron stayed in Cleveland I would have respected him, now I just see him as lazy.

My 2 cents.

The same thing was said about Moses Malone years ago when he joined Dr. J on the 76ers, now no one even remembers. LeBron had a chance to join two of his closest friends and play on a team that didn't need him to carry the entire load, he joined a team which he thought would be the best fit for LEBRON and for that I can't hate. The reason the NBA is in uproar isn't because he left, it's because he decided to insult the entire city of Cleveland in the manner which he left.

Originally Posted by mudathto

You don't need stats to see LeBron's impact on the court. He's the primary playmaker, an excellent rebounder, a top notched scorer, and at the moment, a better perimeter AND post defender than Kobe.

The guy is two time reigning MVP, former scoring champion and is only 25 years old... People hate on LeBron a lot, but they don't realize Jordan didn't get his first ring until he was 27 years old. The guy is HANDS DOWN better than Kobe, he doesn't disrupt the offense when looking for his own shot like Kobe does, and actually does make his teammates better.

The casual fan may accept that Kobe > LeBron, but that's because the casual fan doesn't actually watch games; the casual fan listens to cruddy NBA analysts ride Kobe and use second hand info in their arguments rather than watching the games and coming up with their own opinions.

It's quite the opposite actually. Casual fans actually say LeBron > Kobe, looking at stats alone and not what Kobe does on the floor. Both are primary playmakers, top notch scorers, excellent rebounders, and excellent perimeter and post defenders. Don't make it seem like Kobe disrupts the offense when the plays are primarily designed for him.

And no one rides Kobe the way LeBron gets ridden. He always puts a good show in the regular season, prompting analysts to say "This is the King's year" or "The MVP will reign this year" only to see his team and him burn out in the playoffs. LeBron is the most hyped player in the NBA (and rightfully so), please don't get it twisted.

The fact of the matter is that lebron did have a decent cast, hell he wanted to do what kobe already did... win with shaq. Lebron's had a good cast of people over the years...have you seen kobe do ridiculous dances while a games going on?

hell, kobe's the man. he has arthritis in his finger for life for that ring, look it up. thats why he was shooting so bad.

Originally Posted by mudathto

The same thing was said about Moses Malone years ago when he joined Dr. J on the 76ers, now no one even remembers.

Now, even if Lebron wins a title, people will look back and say Dwayne Wade and team won titles. D-WADE will be remembered, Lebron will be forgotten. Or seen as a lazy ball player that had to ride the coat-tails of another superstar to achieve an NBA title.

Cleveland does deserve better, Lebron should be ashamed to call that state home, ashamed.

dis shyt is sooooooooo whack

Originally Posted by TedMosby

It's quite the opposite actually. Casual fans actually say LeBron > Kobe, looking at stats alone and not what Kobe does on the floor. Both are primary playmakers, top notch scorers, excellent rebounders, and excellent perimeter and post defenders. Don't make it seem like Kobe disrupts the offense when the plays are primarily designed for him.

And no one rides Kobe the way LeBron gets ridden. He always puts a good show in the regular season, prompting analysts to say "This is the King's year" or "The MVP will reign this year" only to see his team and him burn out in the playoffs. LeBron is the most hyped player in the NBA (and rightfully so), please don't get it twisted.

First off, Kobe has not been an elite perimeter defender in years, nor has he ever been considered a decent POST defender; he is a great wing rebounder, but he hasn't at any point in his career out rebounded LBJ. Also, the triangle offense is NOT build around Kobe, and Phil Jackson often claims in his book that Kobe actually disrupts the offense with his me-first attitude and that is what ultimately lead to the downfall of the original three-peat Lakers team.

And come on, people ride the Lakers so hard it isn't even funny. Nowadays, it's almost an effing trend to be a Lakers fan.

Originally Posted by mudathto

First off, Kobe has not been an elite perimeter defender in years, nor has he ever been considered a decent POST defender; he is a great wing rebounder, but he hasn't at any point in his career out rebounded LBJ. Also, the triangle offense is NOT build around Kobe, and Phil Jackson often claims in his book that Kobe actually disrupts the offense with his me-first attitude and that is what ultimately lead to the downfall of the original three-peat Lakers team.

And come on, people ride the Lakers so hard it isn't even funny. Nowadays, it's almost an effing trend to be a Lakers fan.

You can't use statements that Phil Jackson used YEARS ago to what Kobe plays like today. This guy's matured so much, his basketball IQ seems to have shot through the roof the past few years. Furthermore, Kobe is an excellent rebounder for a shooting guard. Comparing stats are good to a certain extent, but inflated stats are inflated. Also, saying that Kobe is not an elite perimeter defender or even a DECENT post defender in YEARS is foolish. Take a look at the 2010 all-defensive team. Hell, take a look at it from 2006 to 2010. His name is there. Every. Single. Time.

Also, no one is arguing that the Lakers aren't hyped. Of course they are, they're the champions. But when it comes down to one player, no one can argue that LeBron has been the single most hyped player in the NBA for the past few years. This guy was hyped from day one, and it has yet to die down, despite disappointing playoff performances the past three years.

Originally Posted by TedMosby

You can't use statements that Phil Jackson used YEARS ago to what Kobe plays like today. This guy's matured so much, his basketball IQ seems to have shot through the roof the past few years. Furthermore, Kobe is an excellent rebounder for a shooting guard. Comparing stats are good to a certain extent, but inflated stats are inflated. Also, saying that Kobe is not an elite perimeter defender or even a DECENT post defender in YEARS is foolish. Take a look at the 2010 all-defensive team. Hell, take a look at it from 2006 to 2010. His name is there. Every. Single. Time.

Also, no one is arguing that the Lakers aren't hyped. Of course they are, they're the champions. But when it comes down to one player, no one can argue that LeBron has been the single most hyped player in the NBA for the past few years. This guy was hyped from day one, and it has yet to die down, despite disappointing playoff performances the past three years.

Doesn't matter whether he's defensive team or not, the media picks those and if you've actually watched anything but playoff basketball, he really just plays safety and sticks around the passing lanes instead of playing his man, so saying that those all defensive first teams are well deserved is silly. And LeBron pretty much champs the playoffs every year barring one or two games, the guy carried his scrubby team as a sophomore (I think) to the effing NBA Finals. The man is the most dominant player in the NBA as of today and we'll see how well the Cavs do without him.

Take LeBron off the Cavs and they don't make the playoffs. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they hit 50 wins.

Originally Posted by Scrub

Now, even if Lebron wins a title, people will look back and say Dwayne Wade and team won titles. D-WADE will be remembered, Lebron will be forgotten. Or seen as a lazy ball player that had to ride the coat-tails of another superstar to achieve an NBA title.

Cleveland does deserve better, Lebron should be ashamed to call that state home, ashamed.

I find these knee jerk reactions so laughable, the only thing Lebron has to be ashamed of is the way he announced his decision that was completely distasteful, other than that he owed nothing to Cleveland because without him the past 7 years that team is bankrupt, he gave them hope and he fulfilled his obligations to the team and now he took less money, sacrificed stats and personal accolades all for the sake of winning a ring and people want to bash him for that? Aren't we sports fans the ones who believe that the main priority for an athlete should be about winning and now we have arguably the greatest athlete the NBA has ever seen who in the absolute prime of his career has chosen to give up everything I mentioned before so he can get a title and the media and fans suddenly become hypocrites? I agree with the fact that he was a douche with his "decision" bash him about that all you want but his actual decision to go to Miami should be applauded.

Now as for his legacy let's get one thing straight Lebron will be in the hall of fame, you cannot argue against that, Second he's not "riding the coat tails" of wade, because wade needs lebron just as much as lebron needs wade in order to win another ring. Now as for all this GOAT talk let me ask you what's better playing 15 years in cleveland quite possibly never winning a ring but being the MAN, or winning 5 or 6 rings with Miami while playing alongside another superstar? You people do realize that MJ didn't win squat until Pippen became Pippen, that Kareem Abdul Jabbar left Milwauke in his prime to play for the Lakers and then won because of Magic, does the fact that Bird played alongside McHale and Parrish diminish his legacy? Does the fact that Shaq bolted Orlando to go to LA and won 3 rings with Kobe and then another one in Miami with Wade diminish his legacy? Do you honestly believe that if Boston's current big 3 had the chance to hookup earlier that they wouldn't have instead of wasting the majority of there careers with failing franchises while being THE MAN?

Again bash Lebron all you want for how he handled himself leaving but don't bash him on the decision itself because it makes most of you look like hypocrites and the only reason i believe so many fans are upset over this is because there is a legit chance that Miami becomes a dynasty which is bad for all other teams in the league.

Originally Posted by HaXoRZ

I find these knee jerk reactions so laughable, the only thing Lebron has to be ashamed of is the way he announced his decision that was completely distasteful, other than that he owed nothing to Cleveland because without him the past 7 years that team is bankrupt, he gave them hope and he fulfilled his obligations to the team and now he took less money, sacrificed stats and personal accolades all for the sake of winning a ring and people want to bash him for that? Aren't we sports fans the ones who believe that the main priority for an athlete should be about winning and now we have arguably the greatest athlete the NBA has ever seen who in the absolute prime of his career has chosen to give up everything I mentioned before so he can get a title and the media and fans suddenly become hypocrites? I agree with the fact that he was a douche with his "decision" bash him about that all you want but his actual decision to go to Miami should be applauded.

Now as for his legacy let's get one thing straight Lebron will be in the hall of fame, you cannot argue against that, Second he's not "riding the coat tails" of wade, because wade needs lebron just as much as lebron needs wade in order to win another ring. Now as for all this GOAT talk let me ask you what's better playing 15 years in cleveland quite possibly never winning a ring but being the MAN, or winning 5 or 6 rings with Miami while playing alongside another superstar? You people do realize that MJ didn't win squat until Pippen became Pippen, that Kareem Abdul Jabbar left Milwauke in his prime to play for the Lakers and then won because of Magic, does the fact that Bird played alongside McHale and Parrish diminish his legacy? Does the fact that Shaq bolted Orlando to go to LA and won 3 rings with Kobe and then another one in Miami with Wade diminish his legacy? Do you honestly believe that if Boston's current big 3 had the chance to hookup earlier that they wouldn't have instead of wasting the majority of there careers with failing franchises while being THE MAN?

Again bash Lebron all you want for how he handled himself leaving but don't bash him on the decision itself because it makes most of you look like hypocrites and the only reason i believe so many fans are upset over this is because there is a legit chance that Miami becomes a dynasty which is bad for all other teams in the league.

Agree 100%, but there was kind of one of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBWxiu5cOo type moments. The guy was destined to be the next Jordan, but decided he'd rather taking a shot at being the next Pippen. It didn't help that he said he wouldn't leave Cleveland until he delivered a ring to the city, or the fact that he didn't let the ownership know ahead of time that he was leaving.

Originally Posted by mudathto

Take LeBron off the Cavs and they don't make the playoffs. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they hit 50 wins.

Lebron had a crappy team, inflating his stats. Just look at Kobe's team when he averaged 35 points, his points per game were insane because his team was full of scrubs besides Odom. Put LeBron on the Lakers and you have a decrease in all the major recorded stats. Put Kobe on the Cavs, and his stats increase. Inflated stats are inflated.

Also, you can say whatever you want about us getting played by the media by having Kobe being picked on the all-defensive team. I'd rather side with the agreed opinion of numerous basketball "experts" (those of who also picked LeBron for the All-Defensive team).

ok im a freshman coming in next year i want to establish right now tht the miami heat have been my favourite team since wade was drafted i swear to god if anone calls me a bandwagoner next year i will not be held accountable for my actions HEAT FOR LIFE but back to the whole lebron kobe comparison this isnt even debatable, Kobe bryant any season any game any day any hour any minute any second . Kobe is clutch lebron isnt this was proven in the second round im pretty sure LEBRON is the only player to get a quadrouple double in a playoff game with 10 turnovers , Lebron lost that game not the coach or the team it was his loss and his loss alone lebron always chokes in the 4th quarter also kobe doesnt, Kobe bryant scores 82 points in a game lebron doesnt kobe bryant has 5 rings lebron has 0 rings simple as that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOsam...yer_embedde d

Lebron reminds of the prototypical good guy that everyone look up to and wanted to be who then suddenly went to the dark side and became the new Heel. This video sums it up perfectly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNVyvrgqVi8


skip to the 30 second mark