Originally Posted by Silver

Meh, we also have an orgo group on facebook where it could have been posted.

People prefer to work with people they know, that's about the only argument I can offer for why they didn't.

Or someone in the orgo group could have started a similar document, or continued discussing the assignment on Facebook? I don't really see the problem with starting a document and discussing it in an alternate method.

It would be nice if each program had their own kind of online collaboration forum. That would be cool. Specifically Bio. But the administration doesn't appear to have the financial resources for that.

Originally Posted by Silver

Meh, we also have an orgo group on facebook where it could have been posted.

Nope because the prof clearly said that giving answers was not allowed on the fb group, and that is what he would interpret it as even though a discussion was actually going on.

Originally Posted by lookatme

Looking at the Senate Scholarships, the cutoffs for Health Sci are significantly higher than other programs. This is an irrefutable fact. We have to get a higher average than other faculties to get the same scholarship. And now, how is THAT fair?

But wait, I can anticipate your arguments now. You're going to say that Health Sci courses are "easy" based on the fact that mostly everybody does well. Sure, everybody does well, but that doesn't mean nobody works hard. That doesn't mean that the administration favours us. And why must administration give scholarships proportional to the amount of people in the program? I would turn it around and say it's unfair to us. Obviously, you cannot compare the difficulty of the courses. A biology course and a chemistry course are different; there is no doubt about it. Group work and individual work has its strengths and flaws; how do you compare apples to oranges? But what I can compare, though, is the grades needed to get that scholarship. And based on the stats, Health Scis need a 11.7 to get the same scholarship while the people in other programs need less.

I guess you guys are right. The system is unfair.

There is absolutely no end to this, everyone is just gonna support their own faculty. However, in any university, ivy leagues included, people in the same program usually have a variation in marks.(since diff people enter with different level of education background). In health sciences however, this variation is quiet low, since most ppl get 11+ averages. In a program where the selection process is very subjective, this variation in marks should be relatively high (High school marks are completely subjective, and there is no standardized test). This just proves that this program should at least be suspected for grade inflation and like the ivy league schools, the administration should at least look at the grade inflation, even just for a little bit. I am going to stop arguing anymore since the health scis are probably going to kill me T___T

Originally Posted by gggggg

There is absolutely no end to this, everyone is just gonna support their own faculty. However, in any university, ivy leagues included, people in the same program usually have a variation in marks.(since diff people enter with different level of education background). In health sciences however, this variation is quiet low, since most ppl get 11+ averages. In a program where the selection process is very subjective, this variation in marks should be relatively high (High school marks are completely subjective, and there is no standardized test). This just proves that this program should at least be suspected for grade inflation and like the ivy league schools, the administration should at least look at the grade inflation, even just for a little bit. I am going to stop arguing anymore since the health scis are probably going to kill me T___T

There might not be a standardized test, but there is the application, which is the only relavent piece of information once you're past the cutoff. So this variation shouldn't be as high as you say.

And there was an audit a few years ago I believe, likely due to some misinformed claims similar to some of the ones in this thread. Last time I checked the program is still around.

Originally Posted by Silver

Meh, we also have an orgo group on facebook where it could have been posted.

And to comment on the Orgo document...

Nobody is stopping any of the other people in other programs to make their own Google docs and collaborate. (Making a Google docs is free!) The difference between Health Science and other programs is that it's small, it fosters collaboration, self-growth and development. You will be hard-pressed to find a group of more talented individuals in other programs. And this is why the group project learning style of Health Science works so well. Sure, there are those who get in through the cracks and hang onto the coattails of other students (there are horror stories!), but the general population of Health Science is hard working and everybody learns so much from one another. I think this is exactly the reason why we get higher averages. We collaborate. We learn from our peers. We work hard.

Originally Posted by Aeria

Nope because the prof clearly said that giving answers was not allowed on the fb group.

He said this on like the due date of the final assignment so it can't really be used as an excuse...oh well. The fb group still answered majority of the questions so it doesn't matter. I was only referring to the orgo assignment as an example fo how you guys work together. Not a bad thing to do. It's wise to do these types of things since most benefit especially since answer weren't blatantly given in those documents anyways.

How about a mod closes this thread, seeing as that it goes against what Macinsiders is meant for. Last time I checked, a debate with no end that only fosters animosity and enimity between McMaster students is not what we are going for ...

Honestly people need to take a chill pill.

1) High School grades mean nada. There is such a wide variety in marking between schools, and between how people adapt to University. Compared to some people I know who did better than me in High School, I do better in University. Others who didn't get particularly great grades in high school kick butt in University.

2) People in bigger Science programs don't like the special treatment that some programs get. It's not like they disagree with group work, PBL and the like (although most would still want some testing) but they don't like that for the most part their program consists of busy work (Lab reports) and midterms with averages ~20% below the admittance average of the program. They also dislike courses they view as jokes (and to be honest there are some Health Sci courses that sound, at least on first glance, to be bird courses.

3) First year chem is the easiest of the first year sciences (unless chem is your weakness).

4) Memorization of many minute details is both hard and not a very good way to learn most things. A lot of people dislike programs that don't have to deal with it.

5) There's a lot of collaboration that goes on among Health Scis. Not all of it proper. Also the Health Sci only section of learnlink, rumored to be packed with semi-illicit resources, is a big source of animosity.

Anyways, Health Scis, don't feel too bad. Most people don't hate you, just their programs. There are some things people feel aren't fair, and there are some among you who antagonize people with their attitudes (see "I can't wait to practice LPs on you"), but for the most part, most of us just wish the school seemed to care as much about us.

Due to user request, this thread is now closed. Further respectful discussion is always encouraged and a new thread can be started that extends consideration to all members of the McMaster community despite disagreements, as part of a mature and courteous debate.