Originally Posted by Melanieee

Can someone make a new link on the homepage for debate forums only? Then when a thread gets heated instead of closing it down you can just kick it to the debate forum page.

And then anyone who goes in there can go in with guns-a-blazin

Originally Posted by Chris23

YESSSS. And if your afraid of someone ripping you a new whole, STAY THE **** AWAY

The problem here is that debates are meant to be formal in nature, wherein all parties involved exhibit a form of open-mindedness, or, at the very least, fair-mindedness. Socrates declared, "when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the user."

As a moderator, unfortunately, I've yet to witness a large-scaled public dispute on these forums that haven't, at some point or another, relegated to exchanging disrespectful remarks, the singling out of others as a means to besmirch them, excessive swearing, and/or straight up bashing. Ultimately, it's not surprising, under the guise of anonymity that is the Internet. Even so, that's not debate- you can't call that debate, and "heated argument forum" sounds so much less enticing, which is precisely why such threads are often closed. I'd like to be proven wrong though.

Originally Posted by Chris23

So Ive been seeing a lot of peoples posts being taken down on here that have no business being removed. It seems as those posts are being censored simply because people do not agree with the views being expressed, or they supposedly dont relate to the topic at hand. Last time I checked, we had the freedom of speech, allowing us to express our thoughts as long as it does not cross the line of harassment or break any laws.
This thread can be about anything. I dont care if you get off topic in here. I say this as ive seen posts removed because they stray from the topic of the article. I hope this doesnt get taken down, as I am simply expressing an opinion that I have generated from surfing these forums for the past few weeks.
What are your thoughts everyone!

Freedom of Speech does not apply here because you are writing opinions on someone else's private property. Macinsiders is a division of an incorporated business (states that at the bottom of every page you visit on this website), and not within the public realm, where it is subject to such guarantees. The only thing Macinsiders is legally obliged to uphold with its user base is the Terms of Agreement we all "read" prior to joining.

So to sum up, pretty much this whole freedom of speech argument is the equivalent of me saying "I wrote something which you may or may not care to read about on the garage of your house. Vandalism? Nah free speech".

Originally Posted by Chris23

So Ive been seeing a lot of peoples posts being taken down on here that have no business being removed. It seems as those posts are being censored simply because people do not agree with the views being expressed, or they supposedly dont relate to the topic at hand. Last time I checked, we had the freedom of speech, allowing us to express our thoughts as long as it does not cross the line of harassment or break any laws.
This thread can be about anything. I dont care if you get off topic in here. I say this as ive seen posts removed because they stray from the topic of the article. I hope this doesnt get taken down, as I am simply expressing an opinion that I have generated from surfing these forums for the past few weeks.
What are your thoughts everyone!

Hi Chris. Thank you for starting this thread. It has actually brought up a lot of great discussion between staff at our staff meeting today regarding revisions to our Code of Conduct and forum guidelines. We will be releasing a new 'Posting Guidelines' page that is clearer and simpler to understand, the announcement will be made soon so check our homepage for that.

In regards to your specific complaint, our moderator staff are asked to stay topic-neutral. This means they don't take sides or remove content based on personal bias or 'not agreeing with the views being expressed' as you put it. If we did so, it would violate the whole nature of having a forum. Forums are for discussion. For debate. For healthy conversation and sharing of opinions. And of course, for helping each other out. None of this could really take place if our mods were erasing everything that they disagreed with. So please let me know where this took place so we can correct it.

With regards to your concern about removing posts that are off-topic. There is a clear reason why we enforce this. Threads are not to be hijacked. This includes purposely changing the topic or subject of the discussion which causes the thread to drift off-topic. Lets look at a general example, if you are the original poster (OP) of a thread and you are trying to start a discussion on say... "Favourite Pop Songs" and the OP asks users to list and discuss their favourite pop songs and another user posts that they think Justin Bieber sucks and asks users to share their opinions about why they hate Justin Bieber. That causes the thread to no longer help the OP and get confusing for readers trying to find great songs and they never wanted to talk about Justin Bieber. In this case, it would be more appropriate for the off-topic user to have started a new thread called "Justin Bieber" and discuss him there.

In all cases, moderators are told to allow time for the OP or other users participating in the thread to try and object to the off-topic poster and turn things around naturally (without a moderator intervening). So it becomes a case-by-case basis because if the OP seem OK with the off-topic discussion (ie. the OP loves justin bieber and doesn't have any problem with the discussion) then we leave it but if users in the thread start to post things like "Please take that discussion elsewhere" and the off-topic poster doesn't stop.. then that is when a Mod steps in. To help the community, and the Original Poster.

There's other important reasons to keep threads on topic. One of the biggest is searchability. Another example is if a user is posting something that is very specific like "Engineering 1A03 help" and the thread starts talking about Eng 1A03 and then quickly goes off-topic to talking about the best computer to buy for Engineering classes. This off-topic discussion could be VERY helpful to other users of the community looking to buy a computer for Engineering... but they would never be able to find that key piece of discussion in the thread that is titled something completely different from the original discussion "Engineering 1A03 Help". It would be best that the off-topic discussion gets put in a new thread titled "Engineering Computer Buying - What computer to get" so that users can find this discussion better and, in the end, more users will contribute to the topic.

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

That's fine I get that if there are personal attacks you'll take the post off. Except there have been a few comments that I've seen removed that did not have any person attacks or were off topic. They were removed seemingly because the conversation was a little heated.

You didn't provide a specific example so I can't give a direct answer, but in general when things get a 'little heated' it is usually fine and the mods leave it. So if something was removed, it must have been flame-bait or bashing. A users opinion of what is a 'little heated' obviously varies from person to person, and a user may have reported it. If the post was reported, then there is a high chance that a mod stepped in and removed it.

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

perhaps a more transparent system where an explanation for the removal of a comment would help?

Thanks for bringing this up. We are actually starting a new thing called the "Power User Panel" which will be announced soon. We will be inviting power users of the site to join in on key decision brainstorming and participating in 'town hall' style meetings where we will encourage feedback from users of the community, and also to participate in focus group type sessions to ask users for ideas for new features, etc.

When a moderator removes something, it must have been serious enough to qualify the removal or deletion of it. That means that an infraction was most likely given. Mods are to give infractions (red flags) to users when a post is deleted. The user is notified of this infraction via an automatic Private Message. The PM outlines the infraction and the mod has a chance to add a note as to why it was given. So users are given a chance to see what they did wrong.

If a mod deleted a post of yours and you weren't given an infraction or an explanation, then please PM me with the URL to the thread (as I can see posts that were deleted and recover them), and we can look at that situation specifically and I can help investigate what happened and restore the post if it wasn't breaking the rules, as well as talk to the moderator who removed it about our policy so that it doesn't happen again.

Originally Posted by Chris23

What is wrong with a heated debate? If people are passionate about their opinions, let them debate it. If you are willing to put your opinion on an online forum, you do so knowing fully that there will be those opposing your opinion, and that you may get a response that you dont like.

Nothing is wrong with a debate. Debates are great! They aren't banned from the forums, we encourage debate! Thats what makes a forum so much fun and enjoyable to read. We WANT users voicing their own opinions, thats the whole point to a forum like this.

There is a difference though between attacking and debating. Building off the example another user gave here in this thread.. if I'm talking about computer operating systems and I post that I like MacOS cause it's easy to use. And another user posts they like PC because of whatever reason... and they debate points back and forth. That's fine. Healthy debate is fine. However, if a user posts a reply saying that another user is stupid for liking Mac cause Macs suck and that Poster X's opinion is 'stupid' and he can 'go to hell'. Well... thats not exactly debating, is it? That's bashing. No points were added to that, and the user just attacked another user for giving their opinion. So that would be flagged and removed. But the rest of the debate would be left intact.

Originally Posted by Melanieee

Can someone make a new link on the homepage for debate forums only? Then when a thread gets heated instead of closing it down you can just kick it to the debate forum page.

And then anyone who goes in there can go in with guns-a-blazin

You can start a debate thread in any of the forums.. so I personally dont see the point having a forum just for debates, but if other users in the community are interested in it then it can be looked at for sure.

One issue I see with having a debate forum would avoid be that users may miss a great debate thread when they are looking in sub-forums for the topic. For example, our General Discussion forum has many sub-category forums within it (eg. Tech, Gaming, Anime, etc). You can start a debate in any of those forums and it would remain organized and would make sense to be in those categories. I suggest starting threads with the word "DEBATE: " before the title. For example, you could start a forum thread titled "DEBATE: Dragonball Z vs. Street Fighter" and start that thread in the Anime forum. This would be great for two reasons: a) you've identified it's a debate, so users know they can voice their own opinions and can expect to get picked apart for healthy debate purposes as long as it isn't bashing them, and b) you've posted it in a very purposeful category where users who are interested in those topics will know to look

tl;dr version:

Mods are highly trained professionals who are never wrong because they are mods who are never wrong because they are mods who were rigorously trained in an intensive internet moderation course taught by Chad himself who himself is never wrong because he owns the site.

P.S. If you disagree, feel free to PM a mod about it, who will take their time to carefully inform you how wrong you are.

P.P.S. Actually, don't waste mods' time and just go post another forum kthx.


edit: because I know you how much you guys hate double posting, which is a deliriously underrated and lost art.

Also, Chad's utopian fantasy for his forum is one wherein posters can debate such fine topics as "Dragonball Z vs. Street Fighter", "Macs vs PCs", and "Justin Beiber: Does He Suck?" in neat and peaceful little threads with no naughty words or offtopic posts.

Setting the bar too low? Or an accurate depiction of the quality of macinsiders discourse? You be the judge!

Originally Posted by Twelve Chars

Also, Chad's utopian fantasy for his forum is one wherein posters can debate such fine topics as "Dragonball Z vs. Street Fighter", "Macs vs PCs", and "Justin Beiber: Does He Suck?" in neat and peaceful little threads with no naughty words or offtopic posts.

Setting the bar too low? Or an accurate depiction of the quality of macinsiders discourse? You be the judge!

So you decide to bash me by the examples I give? I chose simple illustrations to make a point, and one of the examples was brought up by a user in this thread. The bar hasn't been set low at all. You're still here right? With your quality posts and all.

In the case of 'naughty words', thanks for bringing this up. Our new Posting Guidelines (which are being announced soon) are much less strict on this. We've listened to the community who have brought this up as a top complaint with the existing rules.

Originally Posted by Chad

So you decide to bash me by the examples I give? I chose simple illustrations to make a point, and one of the examples was brought up by a user in this thread. The bar hasn't been set low at all. You're still here right? With your quality posts and all.

In the case of 'naughty words', thanks for bringing this up. Our new Posting Guidelines (which are being announced soon) are much less strict on this. We've listened to the community who have brought this up as a top complaint with the existing rules.

No more profanity filter?