I am really stuck between these two programs. I guess it would be easier if I knew what I want to do in the future, but I have no idea. All I know is I definitely don't want to be a doctor.

If anyone could provide some insight into these programs I would be really grateful. Like what are some of the major differences and similarities? What is the difficulty level/workload? (harder is better!) How are the courses? Would it be easy to switch over between them if I change my mind later on? And any other insight would be appreciated!

Originally Posted by Little

I guess it would be easier if I knew what I want to do in the future, but I have no idea.

haha i dont knwo what i want form my future either, and i have no clue where im going to end up, but bascially im just taking what i like most... what do you prefer, chemistry or bio, depending on that go into the program which has more of what you like. in the end im sure both programs will get you a good jop and youll be better off in the program that your doing what you like

Originally Posted by Little

All I know is I definitely don't want to be a doctor.

: thumbsup::t humbsup::th umbsup::thu mbsup::thum bsup::thumb sup::thumbs up:

Go with Chem Bio, it's a smaller program and it's easier to market yourself as a pure chemist if you need it for a job, plus there's less competition for the Chem Bio Co-Op positions. There's also enough overlap between the two in second year that switching shouldn't be too hard if you need to.

Not trying to be bias, dont want any biochems attacking me, but I believe chem bio is harder in terms of workload. I would disagree with the harder=better, dont choose a program just because its harder choose something that you would enjoy. That being said love chem bio you learn a lot of interesting stuff and its an awesome program... at times...

For second year we esentially take most of the same courses (inquiry and lab course aside) so it shouldnt be too bad swtiching from chem bio into biochem. the major differences are the lab and inquiry courses for each program.

side note...During my second year a lot of ppl dropped out of the program so its not for every1 though not quite sure how many it was this year but dont let that affect your decision

Chembio deals a lot more with chemistry--that is probably the major difference in terms of subject matter. It's also a lot smaller, so you get a lot of interaction with each other and with all your profs.

Chembio has a heavier workload (although this is subjective...) and less elective space (especially if you compare with core biochem--the specializations for biochem are probably closer to chembio workload/elective space). If you're looking to do a minor, chembio probably isn't good for you, since there isn't enough elective space. A lot of chembio kids take mostly biochem electives, but biochems don't tend to take chembio electives.

There are chembios from my year working in biochem and bio labs, as well as in chem labs, so you're not really limited to one field.

My advice is, look at the required courses for the two programs and see which one has more required courses that interest you. There are also a bunch of older threads (this topic comes up every year), so do a search for those as well.

I myself have been faced with the same question and I've set my heart on chem bio.

The deciding factor for me was actually quite trivial, but I'm happy with it. That is, many from experience say its got a lot a lot of work and its quite challenging work at that and so I decided to try and push my limits as to what I can do. I've always been wary of being unable to do something because other people have said it was too hard and what not, but I think it's time to see what I can actually do. I've always liked chemistry more than biology (molecular and cellular stuff), but also have enough interest in both to study them.

I will go into second year excited and will be able to work with a small class size (which I still don't really understand the advantages of).

So I'm going to suggest that you at least find yourself a good reason for picking one and you should have no regrets.

Originally Posted by particle

I will go into second year excited and will be able to work with a small class size (which I still don't really understand the advantages of).

Getting to know your classmates really well since you spend so much time together. Also, being able to interact and network with professors who you may need later on to provide you with reference letters for grad school, or potentially working in their lab or being referred by them to future job opportunities, resources, etc. The advantages are endless, really.

Originally Posted by nerual

Chembio deals a lot more with chemistry--that is probably the major difference in terms of subject matter. It's also a lot smaller, so you get a lot of interaction with each other and with all your profs.

Chembio has a heavier workload (although this is subjective...) and less elective space (especially if you compare with core biochem--the specializations for biochem are probably closer to chembio workload/elective space). If you're looking to do a minor, chembio probably isn't good for you, since there isn't enough elective space. A lot of chembio kids take mostly biochem electives, but biochems don't tend to take chembio electives.

There are chembios from my year working in biochem and bio labs, as well as in chem labs, so you're not really limited to one field.

My advice is, look at the required courses for the two programs and see which one has more required courses that interest you. There are also a bunch of older threads (this topic comes up every year), so do a search for those as well.

This is exactly how I made the decision when I was deciding between the two.

My logic was: the profs, the class sizes, and the workload are all secondary to the classes. If you don't like what you're learning and what classes you're taking, then it won't matter how many people are beside you or how much time you have to spend working or how great the professor is.

Originally Posted by ~*Sara*~

Getting to know your classmates really well since you spend so much time together. Also, being able to interact and network with professors who you may need later on to provide you with reference letters for grad school, or potentially working in their lab or being referred by them to future job opportunities, resources, etc. The advantages are endless, really.

Yes, I 'understand' this part, as in I have heard what you've just said. I guess I was trying to say I don't know what it feels like to be in such a small program. Something along the lines of you don't get it unless you try.

Originally Posted by Little

I am really stuck between these two programs. I guess it would be easier if I knew what I want to do in the future, but I have no idea. All I know is I definitely don't want to be a doctor.

If anyone could provide some insight into these programs I would be really grateful. Like what are some of the major differences and similarities? What is the difficulty level/workload? (harder is better!) How are the courses? Would it be easy to switch over between them if I change my mind later on? And any other insight would be appreciated!

Major Similarities: Both equally challenging, and worthwhile. The workload I'm going to say is pretty similar.

Major Differences: The focus of study. Biochem and chem bio both study the same types of bio-molecular interactions, but the focus of study is different. In Biochem, there is more emphasis on the proteins of the interactions, whereas Chem Bio focuses on the small molecules in the interactions. Its definitely a lot more chemistry heavy, so if you don't like chemistry, stay away.

Another large difference is the smaller program size. In the current Chem Bio class of '13, we're now down to only 16. Some people do drop out in 2nd year once they realize this isn't the program for them. In terms of switching out, its quite possible to switch into biochem, or bio (physio), or even life sci (strong discouraged, as we'll shun you as a program if you do).

Depending on your classmates (chem bio class of '14), you may become a very closely knit group, or you guys could all hate each other, but that varies and depends on others.

In terms of future career, (note: the following paragraph is only what I've heard from others like profs, TA's, grad students, etc, and I don't have any facts to prove it), since biochem tends to focus on the protein interactions, biochem grads tend to end up in academia doing reserach. In chem bio, more focus is placed on chemistry and small molecules, and more grads end up in industry and pharma.

Also, with such a small program, you're really able to develop a relationship with professors, TA's, graduate students, etc. And if you haven't learned by now, that kind of networking becomes (indisputably) crucial. I know many chem bio students can talk about many instances when being in chem bio allowed us to develop a network that has been beneficial in some form or another.

CAVEAT: This thread seems to be biased, as the biochem program seems to be under-represented here... I'd try to get some biochem opinions as well.

ps. there have been a ton of chem bio vs biochem treads in the past (and i foresee lots more coming in the future). I suggest reading them over as well.

Just another point to throw in there, even though biochem has more people compared to chembio, you still end up getting to know almost everybody in your program. Especially if you're in one of the biochem specializations..in third and fourth year, your classes are about the same size (if not a bit bigger) as the chem bio classes. As with profs and TAs, you're also able to network very well as your classes aren't super huge like they were in first year. The second year lab course really helps with this, you'll see.

Thanks everyone, this has been very helpful. I know chembio is a lot of chemistry and I'm definitely not scared of that because its one of the subjects I love. But I also love biology, so I'm worried if I'll kind of lose biology going into chembio?

Originally Posted by Little

Thanks everyone, this has been very helpful. I know chembio is a lot of chemistry and I'm definitely not scared of that because its one of the subjects I love. But I also love biology, so I'm worried if I'll kind of lose biology going into chembio?

Definitely not an issue, even honours chemistry has bio related courses/topics sprinkled here and there.

Originally Posted by Little

Thanks everyone, this has been very helpful. I know chembio is a lot of chemistry and I'm definitely not scared of that because its one of the subjects I love. But I also love biology, so I'm worried if I'll kind of lose biology going into chembio?

Both are good options. If you really like bio, you could always go work in a bio/biochem lab during your summers (with either degree). However, working in a chem lab might be slightly more difficult if you come from biochem.

With chem bio, you could always choose bio courses for your electives. Similarly, with biochem, you could choose chem courses as your electives.

If you'd like, I believe both programs also have a coop option. Chem bio coop might be slightly better though since it's a smaller program.

I personally prefer chem bio over biochem, but that's just because I know more people who are/were in chem bio.

Chem Bio is indeed a smaller program, but a lot of your classes in 2nd year are not exclusive to Chem Bio students. You will be taking orgo and biochem courses with biochemistry students, for example.

You should also consider pure chemistry because in your 3rd and 4th year, you can take chembio courses to count towards your major (and the 3rd and 4th year chembio courses are where it's at) especially if you want to focus on organic chemistry (like me).

Also, I have some work experience working in a pharmaceutical and drug discovery company and the people who I've worked with have been trained in organic chemistry and learned the biology on the job. So, if you would like to have a career in medicinal chemistry, pure chemistry is your best bet; chembio is too specialized and biochem doesn't prepare you enough for this field.