If you were put into a situation where you can either follow your moral standards and get a poor grade or ignore morality and get a good grade, what would you choose?

For example, would you use your MSAF to report a fake illness just because you're not ready for a test? (asumming that you KNOW you can ace the final exam)

If using an MSAF raises questions of morality, you really need to take a step back and chill the eff out.

How does your using an MSAF impact anyone else? Why would this ever spark up anyone's moral compass? It is a strategic move, if anything.

If McMaster allows it then its all fair play.

It's more of an ethical quandary, rather than moral, but in either case... use it to your advantage, but if you actually are ill, you're kinda poking yourself in the eye.

I don't think I've used MSAF when it wasn't absolutely necessary, just didn't feel right to me.

I swear when you really need to use msaf, you will regret using it for a scham time...

using msaf because youre not ready is something i am fine with. cheating on a test is somewhat different tho.

I chose getting a bad grade...
It really bothers me when people use MSAF just because they're not ready.

people might hate me for saying this but ... i would choose good grades over morality. only because of the way our education system is. morality won't get you into grad school, but good grades will. i think most people will choose a decent living vs living under constant financial troubles. this is just how our society is. but all in all i'm too scared to cheat anyways.

and using msaf because you're not ready for a test .. that's not really related to being moral. if you have lots of midterms and don't get a chance to study enough for one of them then that's not really your fault ... its time constraint!!!

Originally Posted by kitty1

people might hate me for saying this but ... i would choose good grades over morality. only because of the way our education system is. morality won't get you into grad school, but good grades will. i think most people will choose a decent living vs living under constant financial troubles. this is just how our society is. but all in all i'm too scared to cheat anyways.

and using msaf because you're not ready for a test .. that's not really related to being moral. if you have lots of midterms and don't get a chance to study enough for one of them then that's not really your fault ... its time constraint!!!

My logic is that ONE bad grade isn't the be all and end all. One bad grade isn't going to make the difference between you getting into grad school or not. It's not going to make the difference between you having financial troubles vs not. You could argue that if the mark is worth enough, it could...but in the context of using the MSAF, you can only use it if the thing is worth less than 30% or something, right? So saying that "it's SUCH a huge deal" is an exaggeration.

If you have lots of midterms and don't get a chance to study for them, that IS your fault. Some things are out of your control but you're supposed to learn to manage your time properly. Sometimes shit happens, but that doesn't mean you can abandon your academic responsibilities. So in that sense, it is a moral question. Are you going to accept responsibility for not studying, or are you going to find a way to avoid responsibility? Some people would argue that the university provides a way to avoid responsibility, and they're not wrong.

I don't think using the MSAF is cheating...but on the form it used to ask what the reason was for you using it, and if you put anything other than "I didn't have time to study", you're technically committing academic dishonesty. The university just doesn't care enough to do anything about it, which sends the message that it is fine/allowed.

Whatever...it's your call. But I have enough self-respect that I'm going to earn my degree without taking shortcuts like that, and it bothers me that the value of my degree is cheapened by the university allowing people to do that. At the end of the day, though, it really doesn't affect much. Everyone always says "oh yeah I'll MSAF the midterm and ace the exam", but I suspect that doesn't happen nearly as often as people say

either way though, that ONE test could be a difference between a 10 and 11 in that course. that one course could result in a lower cGPA than needed. and lower cGPA could cost you your admission. it's a risk that i'd be unwilling to take. and realistically speaking it never only happens on ONE test in that one course. undergrad students come across that decision multiple times throughout the 4 years. and it's not your fault if you have multiple things to do within one week even if you HAVE managed your time really well. it's not healthy to always blame yourself ...

Originally Posted by starfish

My logic is that ONE bad grade isn't the be all and end all. One bad grade isn't going to make the difference between you getting into grad school or not. It's not going to make the difference between you having financial troubles vs not. You could argue that if the mark is worth enough, it could...but in the context of using the MSAF, you can only use it if the thing is worth less than 30% or something, right? So saying that "it's SUCH a huge deal" is an exaggeration.

If you have lots of midterms and don't get a chance to study for them, that IS your fault. Some things are out of your control but you're supposed to learn to manage your time properly. Sometimes shit happens, but that doesn't mean you can abandon your academic responsibilities. So in that sense, it is a moral question. Are you going to accept responsibility for not studying, or are you going to find a way to avoid responsibility? Some people would argue that the university provides a way to avoid responsibility, and they're not wrong.

I don't think using the MSAF is cheating...but on the form it used to ask what the reason was for you using it, and if you put anything other than "I didn't have time to study", you're technically committing academic dishonesty. The university just doesn't care enough to do anything about it, which sends the message that it is fine/allowed.

Whatever...it's your call. But I have enough self-respect that I'm going to earn my degree without taking shortcuts like that, and it bothers me that the value of my degree is cheapened by the university allowing people to do that. At the end of the day, though, it really doesn't affect much. Everyone always says "oh yeah I'll MSAF the midterm and ace the exam", but I suspect that doesn't happen nearly as often as people say

Oh my god, I thought by "morality" you were talking about blackmailing someone to write a paper for you or hooking up with a prof. MSAF is just an online form. You're not faking any legal documents and you don't even have to explain anything in person.
If you feel like you need it, do it. Like others have stated, it's not a free pass, and it doesn't necessarily make things any easier. Use it if you feel overwhelmed, but don't assume that it's an automatic 100% on whatever assignment/test you don't write right away.

If you count MSAF as immoral, what's the rest of the stuff many students do labelled as?

MSAF is playing within the rules. It is a constraint.

Speaking as an economist, if using it maximizes your utility (subject to that constraint) relative to that of your classmates who have the same "ace in the hole", you're better off using it.

Echoing what some have already said.....relax. You're over-thinking it.

You should already know this by now if you're in fourth year, a lot of aspects of university are a system. Learn to play it at times.

Just be aware of the risks involved when it comes down to other tests and exams being weighted differently, makeup assignments, etc.

The MSAF is kind of a move by McMaster to indirectly address mental health issues in post-secondary students, just like the fall reading week is. When MSAF first started way back when (I'm old :( ) it was 2 per term, which is a little excessive, because there's a very low chance you'd be so sick for 5X2 days twice between Sept-Nov or Jan-March. Anywho, they changed it to 1 per term to account for that. But if they really wanted you to just use it for illness, they'd just ask for doctors' notes every single time, which is the case after the one "freebie" of the MSAF. I think it's just a method for students to defer a few things during those hectic weeks/stressful times.. Not in any way immorall/unethical.