Originally Posted by ~*Sara*~

The MSAF is kind of a move by McMaster to indirectly address mental health issues in post-secondary students, just like the fall reading week is. When MSAF first started way back when (I'm old :( ) it was 2 per term, which is a little excessive, because there's a very low chance you'd be so sick for 5X2 days twice between Sept-Nov or Jan-March. Anywho, they changed it to 1 per term to account for that. But if they really wanted you to just use it for illness, they'd just ask for doctors' notes every single time, which is the case after the one "freebie" of the MSAF. I think it's just a method for students to defer a few things during those hectic weeks/stressful times.. Not in any way immorall/unethical.

Actually it started as a response to Swine Flu. They didn't want people with the flu going to the doctor and getting more people sick, nor did they want them coming to campus and spreading it that way. That's still the primary logic behind it.

The whole mental health thing is secondary - you can also get a doctor's note if mental health is the problem, with the added advantage of not actually spreading disease everywhere in the process

People need to chill. One bad mark on an exam won't kill you or your chances of getting into grad school. (I got a 6 in one course and am doing perfectly fine).

It was introduced the year that I graduated so that people wouldn't bring swine flu to the doctors office. Personally, I would save it for when I am actually sick.

Oh yeahh, I completely forgot about the swine flu thing. I knew I was missing something, thanks! I remember having a conversation with one of the university's employees and mental health was the reason the MSAF continued. Ultimately though it doesn't matter what the reason was, you're bound to have a crazy week/couple of days, so it's a nice break whether you're stressed out, sick or just overwhelmed with work.

MSAF is lame, but whatever. It's people's prerogative. Chances are, your deferred midterm is going to slaughter you and if it gets put on the exam... Well, depending on the course, you're going to get slaughtered, too. I'm sure a 70% electrical engineering exam is a terrible life choice.

I've never needed to use one and never will. It's a cop out. If I'm unprepared, that's my fate (and fault) and I reap what I sow.

Originally Posted by starfish

My logic is that ONE bad grade isn't the be all and end all. One bad grade isn't going to make the difference between you getting into grad school or not. It's not going to make the difference between you having financial troubles vs not. You could argue that if the mark is worth enough, it could...but in the context of using the MSAF, you can only use it if the thing is worth less than 30% or something, right? So saying that "it's SUCH a huge deal" is an exaggeration.

One bad grade could make a difference if your applying to MIT

Originally Posted by blackdragon

One bad grade could make a difference if your applying to MIT

Study better then. Or adjust your goals.

You shouldn't be using an MSAF for something you simply aren't ready for, it's dishonest. A major part of university is time management. It could even be argued that time management is in large part what is being evaluated in university, as much if not moreso than knowledge. If you are staying on top of your lessons and assignments day-to-day, you shouldn't have a problem being ready. If you are having more than one day per week where you are not doing work (yes I mean one of seven), you are going to have problems.

The other danger in burning your MSAF early is in case you truly need it. It can be hard to find doctors who will issue notes for common colds and such.

Also, once you get out of first year it is quite common for assignments to be worth 30%+, largely for the purposes of being MSAF-proof. Also, many courses do not allow for makeup midterms. It is almost universal that grades on university finals are lower than midterms, so at the end of the day you lose (more, because your exam is worth more).

DISCLOSURE: I HAVE used MSAF in the past, although only for illness relating to a cardiac issue.

To the poster above me, your post is replete with grammatical errors, lol.

I am not sure where the 90% statistic comes from, too.

OP, do not let anyone in this thread make you feel bad. If you're not prepared, do not write it. I wrote a midterm that I was not prepared for, ended up getting an '11' instead of a '12.' In retrospect, I should have deferred the midterm and not lose any sleep about it.

It was masochistic and "moral" of me to write four midterms in five days...

Prepare well for the final, get the grade you want.

Originally Posted by BobSmith99

Nope, your not screwing anyone else over, your just using a resource that mac provides + you will never know that you will ace the exam, 90% of students do worse on the exam than they do on midterms so do w.e the hell you want

A resource that is intended to be used a different way. You are abusing the system. Students are to use MSAF for medical problems that make students unable to write exams.

Hey man, that is not about morality and good grade, it is about your laziness! If you work hard enough, there would be no such question anymore!
Laziness is a kind of disease, get some treatment and work hard!

I'm currently taking an ethical issues course, and one of the chapters is on lying.

One of the ethical dilemmas was this: when giving recommendations, you know most other professors will be giving recommendations to their students placing them in the top 2% or 5% even though that's not true. If in reality your own student is in the top 25%, but you know that because of the others' lies, your honesty will do your student no good, don't you think it's okay to set things right and say that your student is in the top 2%, as well, so that your students has the same advantage as the others?

This is the same thing. If in reality, every other student used MSAF merely for medical reasons, it would be "unethical", but most students use MSAF because they're just not ready. So it wouldn't necessarily be cheating, because you're just giving yourself the advantage of what others already have.

I'm the OP and I started this thread because all of my friends consider MSAF as an advantageous tool that they must use at least once a term.
Even now, I'm confused.
So many people seem to think that MSAF should be used to our advantage regardless of our medical condition.

It's as if there isn't any ethical value to abusing this system.

But one thing for sure is that MSAF kind of makes me lazy because it gives me those feelings of relief when I'm too busy with midterms.

Originally Posted by SweetyTweety

I'm currently taking an ethical issues course, and one of the chapters is on lying.

One of the ethical dilemmas was this: when giving recommendations, you know most other professors will be giving recommendations to their students placing them in the top 2% or 5% even though that's not true. If in reality your own student is in the top 25%, but you know that because of the others' lies, your honesty will do your student no good, don't you think it's okay to set things right and say that your student is in the top 2%, as well, so that your students has the same advantage as the others?

This is the same thing. If in reality, every other student used MSAF merely for medical reasons, it would be "unethical", but most students use MSAF because they're just not ready. So it wouldn't necessarily be cheating, because you're just giving yourself the advantage of what others already have.

I feel like that argument is essentially just "everyone does it so it must be okay". People do things that are immoral/unethical/whatever all the time. That doesn't make it okay, nor do I believe that it entitles me to behave in the same way. I hold myself to higher standards.

Originally Posted by naeD

To the poster above me, your post is replete with grammatical errors, lol.

I am not sure where the 90% statistic comes from, too.

OP, do not let anyone in this thread make you feel bad. If you're not prepared, do not write it. I wrote a midterm that I was not prepared for, ended up getting an '11' instead of a '12.' In retrospect, I should have deferred the midterm and not lose any sleep about it.

It was masochistic and "moral" of me to write four midterms in five days...

Prepare well for the final, get the grade you want.

I think i speak for the collective group in saying, go fuck yourself over this one! Your bitching about an 11 cuz of not MSAFing? haha thanks for the laugh at the end of my work day