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Does anyone else see this as problematic?

 
Old 01-02-2010 at 12:41 PM   #31
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Mathematically it makes about as much sense as
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Old 01-02-2010 at 05:19 PM   #32
deadpool
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Harper is abusing political processes to provide PR spin on issues that his government neglected. In light of a public outcry about Afghan prisoner abuses, Harper chooses to delay Parliament in a brash attempt to table the issue till it they fade from memory.

Down with Harper.

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Old 01-02-2010 at 06:25 PM   #33
arathbon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadpool View Post
Harper is abusing political processes to provide PR spin on issues that his government neglected. In light of a public outcry about Afghan prisoner abuses, Harper chooses to delay Parliament in a brash attempt to table the issue till it they fade from memory.

Down with Harper.
An interesting take, certainly. But I would disagree with the whole public outcry thing, as the polls have shown the issue was certainly not resonating with the public, even though most think the government is being at least somewhat deceptive.

In other words, perhaps the media is reading too much into this whole thing. Although they absolutely enjoy these sort of scandals (good for sales of their product) as I have said the public's voting intentions don't seem to be effective, and one would think they government would want this out of the way ASAP, as long before an election as possible. I think perhaps a more likely explanation, is that the government wishes to alter the economic plan (specifically reduce the stimulus, and reduce the deficit), and to simplify the rest of the legislative agenda in order to get things focused back on the economy. Also they probably are hoping to avoid the government falling on the budget during the olympics, as an election campaign during the olympics would
have potential to mess everything up, especially since the lower mainland of BC will be an important battleground.
Old 01-02-2010 at 08:57 PM   #34
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To be honest, my last post was more devil's advocate than truthful feelings about the prorogue.

The pragmatic truth of this is that the prorogue barely affects the workings of government. Between politicians posturing for cameras during the Olympics, and the fact that Parliament was only to meet again on January 25th, the prorogue isn't a large break from regular Parliamentary workings.

While I'm personally unhappy with the way the Afghan detainee situation will be swept over, I'm not averse to the government presenting us with a proper budget... still, I would like to see some changes being made within Canadian intelligence networks so that intelligence officers aren't being strung up like traitors by neglectful politicians.

I used to dream of the day that Peter MacKay would take over the leadership, but now I'm unconvinced that he will be much different than Harper... boo.

(Still... better than Amerignatieff)
Old 01-02-2010 at 09:08 PM   #35
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mckay. the worst defence minister canada has ever had...they get paid to ruin canada's image? ...even worse than the tory who ruined the avro arrow saying that the bomarc missiles would be better. Torturing people is far worse.


as much as I hate the liberals they need to get rid of that ****ing imperialist leader and catch up in the poles alittle, so at least the tories can't get away with shit.

Last edited by andrew22 : 01-02-2010 at 09:12 PM.
Old 01-02-2010 at 09:22 PM   #36
arathbon
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Originally Posted by andrew22 View Post
mckay. the worst defence minister canada has ever had...they get paid to ruin canada's image? ...even worse than the tory who ruined the avro arrow saying that the bomarc missiles would be better. Torturing people is far worse.
I don't know, there are a few worse examples I can think of. Although to be honest we tend not to remember good ministers. And I think the whole Arrow thing is just a wee bit overblown. Was it a mistake? In retrospect yes. But there were a lot more factors in play than those that were mentioned in the film. (Although it WAS a good movie.)


Quote:
as much as I hate the liberals they need to get rid of that ****ing imperialist leader and catch up in the poles alittle, so at least the tories can't get away with shit.
Wow that's uhhh some hate for poor Iggy. I somehow doubt if Bob Rae gets his way liberal fortunes will be any better however.
Old 01-02-2010 at 09:53 PM   #37
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comeon the avro thing was the worst ever. all our best went to nasa!!! where they lead apollo, gemini etc. We were the space program.

...and canada continued to be a bunch of miners and lumberjacks :( (see monthypython sketch)



and the bolsheviks didn't go far enough! now we have to deal with the ignatieff imperialists ugh (although I feel for anyone else that lost it all to the communists..)/ rambling

Last edited by andrew22 : 01-02-2010 at 10:03 PM.
Old 01-02-2010 at 11:42 PM   #38
arathbon
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Originally Posted by andrew22 View Post
comeon the avro thing was the worst ever. all our best went to nasa!!! where they lead apollo, gemini etc. We were the space program.

...and canada continued to be a bunch of miners and lumberjacks :( (see monthypython sketch)
I don't believe we would've had a great space program regardless. Canadians were far more interested in social programs than spending money on defense and advanced science. The Arrow was on the rocks financially and the sales picture was not a rosy as the movie made it out to be. (We would've had trouble selling actual aircraft to the US, the UK and France the biggest markets in the western world, as well as other countries, until the Arrow had a track record) There was a lot of risk, and the government was putting up the money and was having financial difficulty. While in hindsight it had a bad effect on the Canadian aerospace industry, at the time I can imagine it would have been a difficult decision.
Old 01-08-2010 at 11:39 AM   #39
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Canada without Parliament
Halted in mid-debate

Jan 7th 2010 | OTTAWA
From The Economist print edition
Stephen Harper is counting on Canadians’ complacency as he rewrites the rules of his country’s politics to weaken legislative scrutiny


Reuters
THE timing said everything. Stephen Harper, the prime minister, chose December 30th, the day five Canadians were killed in Afghanistan and when the public and the media were further distracted by the announcement of the country’s all-important Olympic ice-hockey team, to let his spokesman reveal that Parliament would remain closed until March 3rd, instead of returning as usual, after its Christmas break, in the last week of January.
Mr Harper turned a customary recess into prorogation. This means that all committees in both houses are disbanded and government bills die, no matter how close they are to approval. The prime minister, who heads a Conservative minority government, clearly reckoned that giving legislators an extra winter break, during which they might visit the Winter Olympics (in Vancouver between February 12th and 28th), would not bother Canadians much.
He may have miscalculated. A gathering storm of media criticism has extended even to the Calgary Herald, the main newspaper in his political home city, which denounced him for “a cynical political play”. There are plans for demonstrations on January 23rd, just before Parliament would have reconvened. “Parliamentary democracy is in danger,” declared Peter Russell of the University of Toronto, who was one of 132 political scientists who signed a letter condemning the prorogation and calling for electoral reform.
Past Canadian prime ministers have normally asked the governor-general (who acts as Canada’s head of state) to prorogue Parliament only after the government has completed most of its legislative business in order to start afresh with a new speech from the throne outlining new priorities. But nothing has been normal in Canadian politics since 2004, when more than two decades of majority government ended with voters electing a Liberal minority government. They then returned Conservative minority governments in 2006 and 2008.
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Far from completing its work, Parliament was still considering important measures, including bills that are part of Mr Harper’s crackdown on crime, as well as ratification of free-trade agreements with Colombia and Jordan. All must now be reintroduced. So why shut down Parliament? Breaking six days of silence, Mr Harper said this week that it was a “routine” move to allow the government to adjust its budget due on March 4th. His spokesman claimed that the 63-day gap between sessions was less than the average prorogation of 151 days since 1867. However, the average in the past three decades has been just 22 days.
Opposition leaders claimed Mr Harper’s real reason was to end an embarrassing debate on the government’s apparent complicity in the torture of Afghan detainees, and in particular to avoid complying with a parliamentary motion to hand over all documents relevant to those charges. They also claim that the prime minister wanted to name new senators and then reconstitute the Senate’s committees to reflect the Conservatives’ additional representation, something that could not be done if Parliament was merely adjourned.
Having prorogued Parliament last winter to dodge a confidence vote he seemed set to lose, Mr Harper has now established a precedent that many constitutionalists consider dangerous. No previous prime minister has prorogued the legislature “in order to avoid the kind of things that Harper apparently wants to avoid,” says Ned Franks, a veteran political scientist and historian of Parliament. Although other prime ministers may have had ulterior motives, they were less blatant, he says.
The danger in allowing the prime minister to end discussion any time he chooses is that it makes Parliament accountable to him rather than the other way around. Some of Mr Harper’s critics are also affronted by his high-handedness in not bothering to call on the governor-general personally to ask for prorogation, as tradition demands, but instead making his request by telephone. “That was gravely insulting to the governor-general and the country,” says Mr Russell.
Whether Mr Harper gets away with his innovative use of prime ministerial powers depends largely on whether the protest spreads and can be sustained until Parliament reconvenes in March. Mr Harper is doubtless counting on the Winter Olympics to reinforce Canadians’ familiar political complacency. But he has given the opposition, which is divided and fumbling, an opportunity. It is now up to it to show that Canada cannot afford a part-time Parliament that sits only at the prime minister’s pleasure.

















Keep in mind this was written by The Economist.
Old 01-08-2010 at 02:33 PM   #40
arathbon
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It is an interesting perspective, and while I don't really buy the whole slippery slope argument that some make (ie. road to a dictatorship), I do agree reform is needed, such as a way of selecting the governor-general that makes them not totally reliant on the prime minister's goodwill. An independent governor -general could serve as a check on prime ministerial authority (something that has been growing, as I said, since the 70's).



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