This is a simplistic question; cause im over the fence on whether I should go to Western Med Sci or come to mcmaster for life sci. I honestly wanna come to life sci but I ALWAYS hear about its grade deflation and "crushed dreams."

So really im asking all life sci students (past and present) to give insight into the program and if its a good route for med school? Compared to med sci

And i know hard work ethic and high GPA and references etc will get me to med school i know i know; but I honestly wanna know how this program is before i come here?

Lol long question, but thanks.

Deflate? Weird, I've only heard about inflating them. In fact whenever I hear a life sci student talk about marks, it sounds like they all get A or above.

There's no grade deflation in life sci. I think it's mostly grade inflation as Life Sci does have some pretty bird courses in their faculty. Bio, chem, and biochem courses do not deflate but theyre not easy either. You get what you put into the course. "Crushed dreams" most likely refers to those who enter university and just don't get the grades that they were hoping, and do so poorly that their GPA is wrecked and med school is no longer an option (like failing almost every course and the rest D's). Though in my opinion, Canadian med schools are more forgiving than American med schools because they do different weightings for your GPA. I can't speak for Med Sci since I don't know anything about it. But in Canada, you can get into med school with any degree as long as you have a good GPA and MCAT, so study what you enjoy and not something that you think will be "preferred by med schools".

Just something else that I've ranted on in the past, you can search my post history if you want. Most of the first year courses you take in Life Sci will be delivered through online modules - a brand new way of learning where nothing makes sense at all. Also depending on the courses you end up taking, you may get some where the profs use Wiley textbooks. All the courses that I've taken that have used Wiley textbooks have been my most hated classes (Chem 2OA3, Chem 2OB3, Bio 2EE3, Biochem 2BB3/3G03) as the profs are shit and their lectures are also shit. In these courses, after the first few weeks of class, there's usually <50 people who attend lectures because the material is so dry. If I had to choose a uni again for undergrad, I would not choose McMaster.

Well, this is the first I've heard about this "grade deflation" - literally never even heard that term before - and certainly the first I've heard about lifesci at Mac being hard. There are so many electives that you can make it as hard or easy as you want. I know they've changed the program a bit recently also, so you can't always go by what others say.

It's not a certain school or program that crushes people's dreams. I remember in my first-year chem class, on the first day the prof asked who wanted to go to med school, and about 75% of the class raised their hands. Most of these people had a limited understanding of what medicine entails, and had a false sense of how well they would do in university due to massive grade inflation and coddling at the high school level. The reality is that most of those people never made it to med school - a good portion of them never even applied, and of the ones that did, most probably weren't accepted.

People get into med school from life sci and a bunch of other "hard" programs - I believe McMaster actually publishes the breakdown for each medicine class, you can look at it if you're interested. However, if you're so concerned with giving yourself the easiest time possible, you're going to be pretty poorly prepared for med school.

1. Thanks everyone but how come I always hear that life sci is not a good replacement for Heath sci and they have a better chance to get to med school cause Heath sci inflates marks?? I'm just saying cause if I don't get into Heath sci then life sci is my next big bet?

2.And what "changes is life sci undergoing?

1. There is no program that can be a replacement for health sci because they've moved away from the traditional lecture + memorize random one liners style of learning and do more group work, PBL, and inquiry type projects. So while all the life sci kids are just memorizing things, all the health sci kids are learning about the same information but are more focused on applying what they learn instead of regurgitating it.

2. They're changing the life sciences program (affects upper years, not first years) because they were noticing that a lot of people were graduating and were lacking in areas such as lab exposure and project design because the program was so loose and general and you could get by with taking a bunch of first or second year intro courses in the upper years. While this may help with the GPA aspect of med school apps, if you don't get in, you're basically fucked cuz you know nothing. So now theyre forcing you to take some upper year lab and project courses.

That's good right; I guess Thanks!

And anyone, any more insight into life sci??

Just because health sci inflates marks, that doesn't mean lifesci "deflates" them.
Also, just because health sci is competitive to get into, that doesn't mean it's the "best" program. It's definitely not the right program for everyone, and once you get in, it can be pretty easy (although to a certain extent it depends on the electives you take, just like in life sci). They have a class where they do yoga and one of their classes had them make pillows one day. In one of their classes they got to choose their own final grade (obviously the prof had veto power). At the same time, it's a ton of group projects and problem-based learning - which for me, means forgetting everything I learned within a few months of finishing the course. Also, group projects take up a ton of time and are pretty annoying.

Also, not all healthsci students get into med school. I remember talking to one who had just graduated fourth year, and he applied to med school and was shocked that he didn't get anything, especially from Mac Med, because he assumed that being from healthsci that an interview would be guaranteed. He ended up going to grad school at the lab that he did a project in during undergrad.

Lool pillows wtf, I know that, I'm not worried about health sci; I just wanna know any insight or tips about life sci??

I had a friend who went thru medical school at Mac and is now a GP practicing in Stoney Creek.

He took natsci for his Bacherlor's, he got 12s in literally everything (back in the 90s when you needed 95% for a 12), he didn't take bird courses, and he walked at 7 miles an hour which shows you how intense and driven he was personally.

That's who becomes a doctor.

If you're not absolutely sure you can get all-12s in hard classes through hard work and dedication, don't even think about medical school. Medical school is for gods who walk the earth. They get there by being in the top 5% of A+ students, not by taking bird courses or looking for easy programs.

Anymore insight?

I graduated from the Life Science program in 2015 and never ran into any grade deflation. Honours Life Sci is one of the most flexible programs at the university, and you have the option to take courses you find interesting, you think will be easy or you'll learn a lot, etc. (whatever your motivation is) while avoiding more difficult/boring courses, or those you think are irrelevant for your future career of interest. However, it does not prepare you for any real-world job, and I absolutely feel that you will need to do additional education, whether that is a masters degree, professional school, college program, etc.

I felt like a "Jack of all trades, master of none" after completing my degree, however I always intended on pursuing additional education after my undergrad, did an undergraduate thesis and developed a good working relationship with my supervisor, who subsequently asked me to pursue a masters in that department.

Overall, Life Sci is what you make it - you could take only "bird" courses, diversify your education by taking a variety of courses, or take courses with a more broad theme (i.e. I took a lot of health courses - some were through geography, life sci, health sci, etc.). Despite these potential benefits, you won't get straight 12's unless you put time and effort in, and take the program seriously (even in courses that people often refer to as "bird" courses - this is particularly true if you dislike the material and don't want to study it). As a previous poster mentioned, medicine is extremely competitive and only the most motivated and intelligent (amongst other traits) people will be accepted. Life science doesn't give you much to fall back on if that doesn't work out, and perhaps seeking the "easiest" program, rather than the one you believe will be most interesting or provide you with a comprehensive pre-med education (whatever that means for you - either targeted towards medicine or more interdisciplinary) isn't the best approach, although it certainly is one strategy. Feel free to message me if you have additional questions about the program (it is slightly different now but I'll try my best)

Thanks!!

Any more insight or tips?

I graduated from Honours Life Sci in June 2016 and I couldn't agree more with shelbs. It is a very flexible program and I took many bird courses to boost my GPA and apply to professional schools. In my last two years, I got close to straight 12s but that was partially due to the easiness of the courses I took (natural disasters, water, energy and society, etc etc) and Honours Life Sci allows you to shape the program the way you like it. There is no grade inflation per say and it is fair just like many programs at Mac. I liked the flexibility and the amount of TA positions available in the department which was a bonus and the abundance of research projects available to us IF we wanted to pursue them. Overall, I enjoyed the program and if I would have to do it all over again, I would have taken more Kin courses (personal interest and heard great things about them!). It's def a good route to med school/professional schools but remember it is literally a useless degree on its own (more useless than other undergrad science degrees out there).

Thanks!!

But I noticed you (bobsingh) and shelbs didnt state that you applied to med school or any other professional school? Why not, since thats the primary reason for a life sci degree??