So we all know that the world isnt perfect when it comes to equality, but women are always preaching equal rights and status in comparison to men. In no way do i oppose this, I think men and women should have equal rights. What I'm wondering, is does anyone think that there is a double standard being set in this search for equality? I find that there are sometimes where people preach equality, and then expect to have additional priveledges.
Again this is not meant to be an insulting topic, I'm hoping to generate some meaningful debate.

I've never really liked the term "equality" in discussions like this... because I don't think that what society strives is for equality but instead being treated with respect and fairness. This can mean equally to an extent, but being treated fairly doesn't mean being treated equally.

This is important (I think) because as you say people seek "additional priveledges" all the while preaching equality. Maybe being treated equally can only come as result of having those additional priveledges? (obviously here the definition for equally would have to change and that's why I don't really like the term equally because I don't think it fits properly, while a word like respectfully, or fairly works a lot better)...

Just my two cents

Well i think it is safe to say that is has been women pushing for the equal rights, which makes sense as they were clearly the ones who were overlooked for about the first 70 years of the 1900s.
One of the points I have always had a hard time grasping, is something such as sports teams. They are divided into boys and girls teams for a reason, generally because guys are more physical and it would be unfair to most girls to have to compete against that.. Now there have always been cases where a girl feels she wants the challenge of playing against the guys, and people always say that a girl should be allowed to play on a guys team if she wants to. and in many cases this has been the outcome. I feel though that if a guy who was good at his sport wanted to play on the girls team, he would be shut down right away. (This could happen say in highschool where one sport is played half the year by guys, then the other half by girls) Do you agree that girls should be allowed on guys teams? and if so, then what is your stance on the opposite happening?

I understand that there has been an ongoing move towards equal rights, what I meant was you're assuming that they seek equality in the strictest sense of the word and that's not true. Either another word should be used that better describes the actual goal, or agree upon a definition for equality in this case. Which is not really everyone being treated the same but everyone being treated with a basic sense of fairness and respect. Both of which in a lot of cases look the same, but not always (affermative action is an example of where in order to treat people fairly we cannot treat everyone equally).

In terms of sports, I think you're hung up on the "girls team" and "boys team", if a girl plays on the "boys team" is it still the "boys team"? Or is it just another team of sport X?

A better question to ask is whether or not sports team should be co-ed. By the question you've asked you've already established that one team is for males and one is for females. Maybe leauges or teams should be set up as co-ed. In that case, if a male or female is capable of meeting the requirements (say the weekend cut-off in a golf tournament) then why not allow them to play togeather?

Also, guy's play more physical? That's rather subjective... but if they still want to play in that leauge as long as they are of the same skill level, why not let them play as long as they understand the supposed increased physicality of it?

Imagine someone else made this thread. How would you respond to it?

What do you mean? as in not Chris23 specifically?

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

What do you mean? as in not Chris23 specifically?

I'm just curious as to how he would answer his own questions.

Couldnt agree with you more about the sports Amardeep, it should be solely based on skill level. That way it would allow for the based competition. There would be no restrictions of number of boys or girls needed to be on a team. If the best players are all girls, then no guys would make the team. And my statement about guys being more physical comes in the sense that guys typically have a larger body build, so they throw their weight around alot more than that which a smaller girl would be capable of doing
And Eternal Fire, im giving my opinions here straight up. I think that the strive for equality has not been achieved by either side. I think men still dominate a much larger percentage of corporate jobs than women do, but that is changing as the years go by.
In my opinion to really achieve "equality", then all the expected behaviours between men and women would have to be torn down. For example, if a man shouldnt hit a woman, than a woman shouldnt hit a man. Still i agree any guy that hits a girl should get his ass kicked. But still, until the same expected courtesies that women have are considered to be expected for men as well, and vice versa, i dont think true equality can be achieved.
And lets stop with the hating alright eternal flame. If someone makes a foolish statement on here or asks a stupid question, then yeah im gonna give them a stupid answer. When a serious topic is being discussed, then i give an honest opinion. And thats how id answer my own questions

Well, yeah, there's always double standards, and there's always double standards in looking for equality, simply because people never have enough equality.... ahem, feminists.

I saw we've always had equality, they do/have something they are better at, and so do we.

Example: Men are physically stronger. Women can have multiple orgasms.... looks pretty equal to me.

Originally Posted by Twinkle

Well, yeah, there's always double standards, and there's always double standards in looking for equality, simply because people never have enough equality.... ahem, feminists.

Im just saying, you never hear about guys getting to pay half price on club nights;P haha but from what you said, i think your right that people feel they never have enough equality. which goes to show that people have completely redefined the meaning of the word. I think people preaching equality want to be more equal than others at times

But you want everyone to be treated the same... that would in a lot of instances result in a society where a group of people is not in fact at equal status to another. Not just with women, but many other groups that humans have decided certain humans belong to.

For example, in your program of Engineering there is an obvious observation that there are far more males than females. Why? Perhaps it's simply our society's attitude and culture that has bred this fact. It seems like that's the case anyway. So here is an example where due to engrained cultural elements women are seemingly unequally represented in the engineering world when compared to men. If we wish to achieve a "equal" society (equal not being in the strictest sense but a word you used which I take to mean being treated fairly), wouldn't one need to treat males and females unequally by perhaps providing incentives to females to enter that field in order to change a cultural problem and actually lead to a equal society?

As far as hitting a women. No, obviously we should not accept that behaviour and it should be dealt with. But so too should the opposite just as a man physically abusing another male or a female to another female is not accepted. I don't know anyone who says it's courteous for a male not to hit a female, but it's just fine if the female is hitting the male... Im not sure how you came to that conclusion.

in regards to that last statement, think of it this way. I think you would get an exponentially stronger reaction from people if they see a guy smack a girl, than if a girl hits a guy.
About there needing to be more women in engineering for equality, i think that compeltely goes against equality. If a woman wants to be an engineer, there are no barriers stopping that from happening, but if you force more women in the field to achieve a balance in the number of men and women, i think thats distorting equality. Just because a field is dominated by men, doesnt mean that an inequality exists. it simply means that more men chose the profession. By providing incentives to women to join, thats creating an inequality by giving them benefits that a man would not receive for doing the same job. It is that exact thinking in my opinion that completely distorts what people define as equality. Neither girls or guys should get incentives to go into a certain field of work just for a balanced distribution in the genders.

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

Engineering there is an obvious observation that there are far more males than females

Not really, not really, it's just dudes like to build stuff.

Originally Posted by Twinkle

Not really, not really, it's just dudes like to build stuff.

If this was meant as a serious comment, I'd as for you to show me some evidence for the biological reason as to why "dudes like to build stuff"... but I assume it's just a half-assed attempt at making a joke.


All evidence thus far points to society being responsible for that disparity, and I don't mean it in that feminist sense... Im not going to start ranting against corporate male opression (I don't even know if that's a thing, I just remember hearing it in a Sonic Youth song...), but the fact is women are far less likely to enter engineering or sciences because of various cultural and societal norms. You may dismiss that, but that doesn't stop it from being true...

This is the result of a quick google search discussing the social aspects of the issue (and there's a ton more information elsewhere): http://www.livescience.com/1927-men-...ce-fields.html

But anyways...this was fun, I think i'll leave now =)