So while trying to procrastinate at work this morning, I checked my facebook feed to find post after post by women claiming to be feminist that were preaching girl power, equal rights, more rights for women, etc. I couldnt help but think how much of a hypocrisy feminism is, at least the way that women interpret it today. They preach equality between men and women, and yet by definition, they only look at advocating women's rights. Sorry just had to rant and wanted to see what other's opinions are on feminism in general.

Watch Emma Watson's speech at the UN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-iFl4qhBsE

I had some of the same issues that you mentioned, and now less so after thinking about some of the things she said. And, she does mention discrimination against both genders.

Watch Amazing Atheist's videos on feminism, he usually rips them apart with their bs logic.

Feminism isn't just about women and men. It's about people of all genders, races, and abilities and equality in general. Your rant only proves why women feel it's necessary to continually share links and posts about feminism. Because men think it's about them.

Telling a woman she's obsessed with feminism, or a Black woman she's obsessed with racism, or whatever, is like telling a drowning person they're obsessed with swimming. And your rant is kind of like getting upset with the drowning person for not being more concerned about handing out lifejackets to people standing on the shore. Doesn't mean lifejackets aren't important. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be a concern for somebody. But they're not relevant to the person drowning, that person has enough to worry about as it is. Go get your own lifejacket.

It's like being in first place in Mario Kart and complaining that you never get given the rocket like the people in 11th and 12th place do.

Of course men's issues exist. Feminism doesn't argue that they don't. In fact there are a lot of feminists who discuss men's issues. But claiming that this has to happen in every post, or that every women interested in feminism needs to concern herself with men's issues to be taken seriously? Ridiculous. If you're concerned with men's issues then feel free to post about them.

Feminists: Hey. We'd like for women to be treated as equals.

Society: Oh sure. You want "equality" but then you expect men to open the door and pay for meals, is that it? That's not equality! That's special treatment!

Feminists: Um, no not really. You don't have to open the door and pay for our meals. We can do that ourselves.

Society: *gasp* What? You don't want men to open doors for you? Why do you hate nice people? No wonder chivalry is dead! You'd yell at a man for just being polite and opening the door for you?

Feminists: No! We're just saying you don't have to do it just because we're women!

Society: And while we're at it, how come you don't protect male victims of abuse and rape, huh?

Feminists: Actually, we think it's really terrible that men are forced to stay quiet about their abuse because they're worried about not being taken seriously. It's this Alpha Male myth that causes it. Men are abused and raped and they're not helped because men are supposed to be tough and able to handle it. This also goes for men not being able to express emotions.

Society: Oh, so you just want men to be a bunch of pansies then, huh? You hate men for wanting to be strong LIKE NATURE INTENDED THEM TO BE. You'll be sorry when you end up married to some weak, simpering fool who likes to talk about his "feelings"!

Society: Also, you can't have equal rights because women aren't aggressive enough to want higher pay and stuff.

Feminists: HOW ABOUT YOU GO FUCK YOURSELF AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON?

Society: Jesus, calm down. No need to be so aggressive.

(http:// bigenderbeatnik [dot] tumblr [dot] com/post/38324026711/feminists-hey-wed-like-for-women-to-be-treated)

Society: *gasp* What? You don't want men to open doors for you? Why do you hate nice people? No wonder chivalry is dead! You'd yell at a man for just being polite and opening the door for you?

No, usually here men say, "well, in this competitive world I treat others like shit, or at very least ignore them for the most part, so don't complain when I treat you like shit as well or ignore your problems and needs"

Originally Posted by auri

Feminism isn't just about women and men. It's about people of all genders, races, and abilities and equality in general. Your rant only proves why women feel it's necessary to continually share links and posts about feminism. Because men think it's about them.

Telling a woman she's obsessed with feminism, or a Black woman she's obsessed with racism, or whatever, is like telling a drowning person they're obsessed with swimming. And your rant is kind of like getting upset with the drowning person for not being more concerned about handing out lifejackets to people standing on the shore. Doesn't mean lifejackets aren't important. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be a concern for somebody. But they're not relevant to the person drowning, that person has enough to worry about as it is. Go get your own lifejacket.

It's like being in first place in Mario Kart and complaining that you never get given the rocket like the people in 11th and 12th place do.

Of course men's issues exist. Feminism doesn't argue that they don't. In fact there are a lot of feminists who discuss men's issues. But claiming that this has to happen in every post, or that every women interested in feminism needs to concern herself with men's issues to be taken seriously? Ridiculous. If you're concerned with men's issues then feel free to post about them.

I never said anyone was obsessed with feminism? How many words are you going to put in my mouth with these posts lol.

That part about the lifejackets... ok let me try breaking this down here.
First, who is drowning here?
Second, when was i concerned with them handing out lifejackets to people on the shore?
Third, who are these people on the shore?
Why arent lifejackets relevant to someone drowning, are you trying to make them drown?
Last, go get my own lifejacket? Im sorry but i have no clue when i asked for one or what kind of terrible analogy you are trying to make here, but i think you are drunk.

The mario kart reference... ok this is you making the comparison that aparently all men are first place in the race of life, and women are bringing up the rear... when did i complain about not geting rockets? (BTW your post is getting more bizarre as i try to further comprehend this)

Finally, the men's issues comment. Didnt i just post here about mens issues as you told me to freely do so, only to have you post illogical gibberish for me to waste half an hour of my working day trying to decipher?

Originally Posted by auri

Feminists: Hey. We'd like for women to be treated as equals.

Society: Oh sure. You want "equality" but then you expect men to open the door and pay for meals, is that it? That's not equality! That's special treatment!

Feminists: Um, no not really. You don't have to open the door and pay for our meals. We can do that ourselves.

Society: *gasp* What? You don't want men to open doors for you? Why do you hate nice people? No wonder chivalry is dead! You'd yell at a man for just being polite and opening the door for you?

Feminists: No! We're just saying you don't have to do it just because we're women!

Society: And while we're at it, how come you don't protect male victims of abuse and rape, huh?

Feminists: Actually, we think it's really terrible that men are forced to stay quiet about their abuse because they're worried about not being taken seriously. It's this Alpha Male myth that causes it. Men are abused and raped and they're not helped because men are supposed to be tough and able to handle it. This also goes for men not being able to express emotions.

Society: Oh, so you just want men to be a bunch of pansies then, huh? You hate men for wanting to be strong LIKE NATURE INTENDED THEM TO BE. You'll be sorry when you end up married to some weak, simpering fool who likes to talk about his "feelings"!

Society: Also, you can't have equal rights because women aren't aggressive enough to want higher pay and stuff.

Feminists: HOW ABOUT YOU GO FUCK YOURSELF AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON?

Society: Jesus, calm down. No need to be so aggressive.

(http:// bigenderbeatnik [dot] tumblr [dot] com/post/38324026711/feminists-hey-wed-like-for-women-to-be-treated)

So this conversation with yourself contributes nothing to this conversation as it is fabricated by you and does not reflect a conversation of anyone posting in this thread... not sure where you are going with this?:s

NOW that i am finished picking apart what felt like the written work of a 3rd grade child who sits at the dull end of the intelligence spectrum, let me explain my reasoning for disliking feminist activists. The one area that really irks me is hearing feminists preach for equality, because i feel that feminists vision of equality is completely skewed compared to what true equality means. When you hear feminists arguing about equal rights in the workforce, many times the arguement will come up that there should be an equal distribution of men and women in all the different work fields. THAT IS NOT EQUALITY. This is trying to force an exact one for one division of men and women in the work force. Equality means providing everyone, both men and women, with equal opportunity. In Canada, there IS equal opportunity to pursue the career path of your choice. Post-secondary institutes look at averages and extra-curriculars when selecting students to admit, NOT SEX. Just because either men or women generally choose to not enter a specific field of work, leading to one gender significantly dominating the working population, doesnt mean that equal opportunity hasnt been given.
Another thing, we see all the time that some feminists preach that the standard for young girls to look up to is unrealistic (See barbie dolls, celebrity role models, etc.). Its not as though we as men dont have the same unrealistic expectations to live up to. I'm sorry but have you seen the muscular definition on a He Man action figure? Pretty sure that is the exact same thing as putting a pair of double d's on a barbie, but i never hear a feminist complaining that men have unrealistic expectations to live up to.

Originally Posted by 2Dream

The one area that really irks me is hearing feminists preach for equality, because i feel that feminists vision of equality is completely skewed compared to what true equality means. When you hear feminists arguing about equal rights in the workforce, many times the arguement will come up that there should be an equal distribution of men and women in all the different work fields. THAT IS NOT EQUALITY. This is trying to force an exact one for one division of men and women in the work force. Equality means providing everyone, both men and women, with equal opportunity. In Canada, there IS equal opportunity to pursue the career path of your choice. Post-secondary institutes look at averages and extra-curriculars when selecting students to admit, NOT SEX. Just because either men or women generally choose to not enter a specific field of work, leading to one gender significantly dominating the working population, doesnt mean that equal opportunity hasnt been given.
Another thing, we see all the time that some feminists preach that the standard for young girls to look up to is unrealistic (See barbie dolls, celebrity role models, etc.). Its not as though we as men dont have the same unrealistic expectations to live up to. I'm sorry but have you seen the muscular definition on a He Man action figure? Pretty sure that is the exact same thing as putting a pair of double d's on a barbie, but i never hear a feminist complaining that men have unrealistic expectations to live up to.

In Canada, there is quasi-equal opportunity. By that, I mean there are no laws restricting genders from certain fields. However, there is societal pressure in terms of what certain genders should be doing (for example, how many male midwives are there really? Maybe male OB-GYNs, but very few midwives). So, even if someone would like to pursue a certain field, societal pressure can prevent them from doing so. This is reflected in a large gender gap in the field, and decreasing the gap is a surrogate for decreasing unfair gender stereotypes. It does not mean that a 1:1 ratio is required.
There is also an issue where people are discouraged from entering particular fields because of their gender (or ethnicity or religion on occasion as well). For example, a male-dominated field with lots of "locker room" talk will make women feel isolated, will not foster a good working environment with women, and will either push them out or discourage them from joining in the first place. There is actually a workshop (I think it's in Toronto - I saw it on the news a couple of weeks ago) that aims to teach women about sports such as football so that they can better fit in in male-dominated workplaces. The fact that the workshop is needed is an indicator that there are still barriers to truly having equal opportunities. Equal opportunity means it should be just as easy for a woman as a man to go into any given field, not that it is legally possible for either gender to go into a given field.

Since when do feminists preach barbie-like body images? Most feminists (and I'd argue, any real feminist) preaches the opposite (a "love your body" type of approach) for both men and women. And the fact that men are subject to unfair stereotypes of their own does not mean that it is okay that women are also subject to a different set of stereotypes. Emma Watson did a really good job talking about this aspect in her UN speech.

Here is an easy way to see if feminism/social justice is a credible ideology:

Does feminism support rape?
No, feminism doesn't support rape.
Why does feminism not support rape?
Because in the case of rape you have one party which doesn't consent to the interaction.

Does feminism support involuntary taxation?
Yes, feminism supports taxation (needed to fund welfare, courts and the police, all of which favour women).
Does involuntary taxation involve one party which doesn't consent to the interaction?
Yes it does.

There is a contradiction here.
If nonconsensual interactions are immoral, then feminism is killed as it won't be propped up by the government.
If nonconsensual interactions are moral (or you implicitly consent to them via some sort of nebulous "social contract") then you cannot campaign against things such as rape, abuse, forced marriages, etc, and still be consistent in your argument.

Furthermore, as far as all the bullshit where "the patriarchy hurts men too ;_____;", what is funny is that women actually attribute the choices they make (ie fucking abusive guys and then complaining about said guys hitting them) to men doing it for no reason! Also nevermind all the years that single mothers drill into their (predominantly minority) children that violence is alright through hitting them, is it then any wonder where these same children grow up to be abusers and criminals in general? Not to mention how hilarious it is to hear feminists whining about how women had it so bad back in the day, ya I'm sure never having to die in wars and work back breaking and early-grave-sending labour was a picnic for men. I'm sure the men who have routinely seen their fellow men die and hence formed innovations, enterprises and governments to lessen the death tolls were all evil misogynists for not letting women drink the nectar of their labour right after having established it. All those men who died to protect their families, while their wives cowered in the corner only to readily become mothers of children of their husband's killers, were enforcing an oppressive system of patriarchy that squandered the infinite abilities of womyn.

How about women start owning up to things for a change? If they actually believe in equality then how about doing something other than calling (often times forcing through the powers of the state) men to fix their problems for them? If women want games that feature women, then how about they roll up their sleeves and start making them or financially supporting those that do? But that's right, apparently if you want women to do anything other than be wallflowers, victims or manipulators then you are against equality!

There are so many facets to modern society in which women can easily be said to have the upper hand on men. Child support? Divorce laws? Thats actually another thing that really fucking pisses me off. If a financially successful man is married to a women for X number of years prior to a divorce (I'm sorry i cant quote the exact number of years required at the moment), then the woman can be entitled to her share of his salary in the form of alimony payments because she has "become accustomed to the lifestyle"... are you fucking serious? She has become used to living off of the man whom she is divorcing, so as a result the courts will allow her to continue living off his money so that her lifestyle doesnt change as drastically? That is the biggest amount of bullshit ive ever heard!

Originally Posted by augustus

Here is an easy way to see if feminism/social justice is a credible ideology:

There is a contradiction here.
If nonconsensual interactions are immoral, then feminism is killed as it won't be propped up by the government.
If nonconsensual interactions are moral (or you implicitly consent to them via some sort of nebulous "social contract") then you cannot campaign against things such as rape, abuse, forced marriages, etc, and still be consistent in your argument.

Did you seriously just try to argue that feminists can't "argue against" rape, abuse, and forced marriage because.... they're okay with taxes? SERIOUSLY????

There are many different kinds of feminism, and many individual voices within feminism. Just because some of those voices don't specifically argue against, or even choose to argue for taxes, DOES NOT mean that arguments against rape and abuse are voided.

Taxes are a whole different argument. Your argument is just another disgusting way of trying to silence discussions about rape culture and victim blaming. Wake the **** up!

what is funny is that women actually attribute the choices they make (ie fucking abusive guys and then complaining about said guys hitting them) to men doing it for no reason!

.... Perfect example of victim blaming and rape culture. And perfect example of why feminism and feminist arguments are necessary.

Nothing about this situation is "funny." Choosing to have sex with someone is in NO WAY consenting to being abused.

How about women start owning up to things for a change? If they actually believe in equality then how about doing something other than calling (often times forcing through the powers of the state) men to fix their problems for them?

Telling women it's their responsibility to prove they deserve to be treated like humans is really just another way of saying that we should be working off the assumption they aren't. The reason feminists demand action from "powers of the state" or from men, as you argue, is because those are the people in power.

If women want games that feature women, then how about they roll up their sleeves and start making them or financially supporting those that do? But that's right, apparently if you want women to do anything other than be wallflowers, victims or manipulators then you are against equality!

The argument that videogames or television shows or movies or comedy shows or whatever else don't feature positive portrayals of women, or women at ALL is because women don't show up or step up to create them is BULLSHIT. Stop asking about why "women don't create them" and start asking about what happened after they did create them. Ask about how many women pitched these ideas to movie companies and funders and game designers, or auditioned for roles or applied for the jobs. And then ask about what happened next.

And seriously? You made an account on here specifically to post this woman hating rant? Get over yourself.

Originally Posted by 2Dream

There are so many facets to modern society in which women can easily be said to have the upper hand on men. Child support? Divorce laws? Thats actually another thing that really fucking pisses me off. If a financially successful man is married to a women for X number of years prior to a divorce (I'm sorry i cant quote the exact number of years required at the moment), then the woman can be entitled to her share of his salary in the form of alimony payments because she has "become accustomed to the lifestyle"... are you fucking serious? She has become used to living off of the man whom she is divorcing, so as a result the courts will allow her to continue living off his money so that her lifestyle doesnt change as drastically? That is the biggest amount of bullshit ive ever heard!

In a world where you're a narcissistic close-minded male... sure. In the real world? Please.

Originally Posted by 2Dream

There are so many facets to modern society in which women can easily be said to have the upper hand on men. Child support? Divorce laws? Thats actually another thing that really fucking pisses me off. If a financially successful man is married to a women for X number of years prior to a divorce (I'm sorry i cant quote the exact number of years required at the moment), then the woman can be entitled to her share of his salary in the form of alimony payments because she has "become accustomed to the lifestyle"... are you fucking serious? She has become used to living off of the man whom she is divorcing, so as a result the courts will allow her to continue living off his money so that her lifestyle doesnt change as drastically? That is the biggest amount of bullshit ive ever heard!

With child support there is definitely a gender gap, and I think people are starting to become more aware of it and there is a push to make it more equal.

In terms of the divorce law you were referring to, the reason it tends to favour the woman is because it is usually the man that makes more money. If it was the opposite, then one could argue the opposite. Interestingly, it is also usually the one who makes more money who can hire a better lawyer. Also, part of the reason for this is so that people don't stay in abusive relationships simply because they couldn't afford to divorce (e.g. unemployed woman fully dependent on her abusive husband). It's definitely misused in some situations, and also rather controversial, but it's not always inappropriate.

>Ask about how many women pitched these ideas to movie companies and funders and game designers, or auditioned for roles or applied for the jobs. And then ask about what happened next.

So they pitch ideas to men, and then complain when men don't like it? Boohoo, why are men so mean ;_____; How about you accomplish something for yourself?
Here's a spoiler for you, at one point games weren't a thing at all! None for men OR for women!
And guess what? It took male ingenuity and desire for the medium to be born and fledged out to what it is today, how about being grateful that you get to enjoy the fruits of male labour?
The same can be said for all those things that you blame men so much for: comic books, television, movies and etc (pretty much anything really). If not for men building these things, they would not exist, and you couldn't spend your time crying about how men are meanies for not letting you do nothing while they make content that caters to you ;_____;
It's funny, when women co-opt a male endavour and make it all about them it's called a "safe-space" (cue all the "white/male/straight" tears vitriol on tumblr), but when something is gender netural or caters to male interests then it's evil.
These sorts of complete contradictions in logic just prove that feminism is completely irrational and not worth considering with any seriousness.

But I guess logic is less important than your feelings right hun?
The more you scream, harass and insult, the less sympathy people will have for you. To me rape used to mean a horrendous act, but since everything is rape and apparently I am the originator of rape culture, then why should I care about rape? If it becomes impossible for me to differentiate between someone who was violently assaulted and someone who made a stupid decision and now regrets it, then why should I have any sympathy for it?
Men, in our great magnanimity (and foolishness), extended the olive branch and allowed you to join us in the worlds that we created. We thought that by allowing you to participate and have a voice in the nations that we created, the business that we built and the hobbies that we cultivated you would be happy and join us in our toil and search for truth and greatness. Yet what we have found is that all you want to do is take and demand ever more from us. I used to think that our forefathers were cruel and selfish for keeping their women out of their worlds, but with our current state of society I can't be so sure.