Hey everyone,

So just yesterday I attended May at Mac which I loved and thought was very informative, got accepted to Life Sci so that's what I asked most of my questions about.

Now I also received an offer from Western's Medical Science program and am confused to choose. I am sooooooooo confused it's not even funny as both programs offer generally similar specializations with about the same courses.

However this is where I need your advice, at Western you don't specialize until third yr, so in first yr you just need to maintain a min 60% in all your courses to move on to yr 2, in yr 2 you just need to achieve a min 80% on three of your courses to move into the specializations streams.... that being said, a higher average never hurts since specializing is also competitive.

Now on the other hand at Mac, you specialize right after first yr, which means you either gotta really work your butt off to get into those top end streams like biochem/biomedical/mol bio/genetics. This is what I need help with, all of the kids yesterday said your average WILL drop most likely and that life sci is tough (I also looked at course reviews here on Mac forum and most got negative reviews). I also know you can enter Honours life sci ( but that is def NOT where I wanna be)

So can anyone please give me some advice as to where I should go in terms of having that extra year to recuperate your average for entry in Western vs make it or break it first yr at Mac. I know I will have to put ALOT of effort both school but I also want to play it safe which is what Western sorta gives me since I have yr 2 to pull up my grades for entry.

Thank you!!

Originally Posted by Nabeel

Hey everyone,

So just yesterday I attended May at Mac which I loved and thought was very informative, got accepted to Life Sci so that's what I asked most of my questions about.

Now I also received an offer from Western's Medical Science program and am confused to choose. I am sooooooooo confused it's not even funny as both programs offer generally similar specializations with about the same courses.

However this is where I need your advice, at Western you don't specialize until third yr, so in first yr you just need to maintain a min 60% in all your courses to move on to yr 2, in yr 2 you just need to achieve a min 80% on three of your courses to move into the specializations streams.... that being said, a higher average never hurts since specializing is also competitive.

Now on the other hand at Mac, you specialize right after first yr, which means you either gotta really work your butt off to get into those top end streams like biochem/biomedical/mol bio/genetics. This is what I need help with, all of the kids yesterday said your average WILL drop most likely and that life sci is tough (I also looked at course reviews here on Mac forum and most got negative reviews). I also know you can enter Honours life sci ( but that is def NOT where I wanna be)

So can anyone please give me some advice as to where I should go in terms of having that extra year to recuperate your average for entry in Western vs make it or break it first yr at Mac. I know I will have to put ALOT of effort both school but I also want to play it safe which is what Western sorta gives me since I have yr 2 to pull up my grades for entry.

Thank you!!

I forgot to mention this also but I know some life sci kids told me that the highest avg to enter a specialization stream was about mid 80's for biochem which is the most popular (correct me if I'm wrong).... now as a student that always usually gets 90's from high school..... looking at that mid 80 looks like a piece of cake which is probably not the case is it? So I also wanted to keep that mind when giving me some advice hopefully. Thanks!

It all depends on what you want to do with your future really. I know absolutely nothing about UWO so I can't talk about their programs. In the end, when you graduate it doesn't really matter what major you choose, it depends on the marks you get (b/c as of now no matter what you finish in you will get a HB.Sc). Your GPA will be what opens doors to grad schools. Specializations are great and all because they can orient you towards a certain career path, but in the end nothing is definitive.

You will have to adapt your study habits in university based on how difficult YOU think it'll be. Everyone finds courses being different difficulties. I was almost scared off by the course reviews a few times seeing all the negative comments, but when I actually took the course I ended finishing with a good mark (over 80) after putting in a decent amount of work. 1st year is tough because of the life style change mainly. You live away from your parents, there are parties everywhere, everyone wants to have fun and make new friends. You should definitely enjoy those things as well. I had a dreadful 1st year marks wise because I kinda took the partying thing too far, but I've managed to bounce back and my sessional average is enough to get my on the Dean's List. I did minimal studying and finished with a rather disappointing average first year based on how easy high school went for me. Everyone who is in science here got 90s in high school, the cut off in my year was 88%, so you're just like everyone else.

Now heres my opinion from someone who didn't specialize (because I couldn't). I hear my friends in other programs complain about courses they have to take. Some of them being lab courses with extremely long write-ups and harsh evaluations, other courses just being plain boring and dry. Being in lifesci I can take courses that I want and that I find interesting. A specialization may seem really cool and exciting, but maybe you should look deeper and see the courses that you need to take and see if you're actually interested in the courses in the specialization. Good luck with your choice!

Originally Posted by Danielrus

It all depends on what you want to do with your future really. I know absolutely nothing about UWO so I can't talk about their programs. In the end, when you graduate it doesn't really matter what major you choose, it depends on the marks you get (b/c as of now no matter what you finish in you will get a HB.Sc). Your GPA will be what opens doors to grad schools. Specializations are great and all because they can orient you towards a certain career path, but in the end nothing is definitive.

You will have to adapt your study habits in university based on how difficult YOU think it'll be. Everyone finds courses being different difficulties. I was almost scared off by the course reviews a few times seeing all the negative comments, but when I actually took the course I ended finishing with a good mark (over 80) after putting in a decent amount of work. 1st year is tough because of the life style change mainly. You live away from your parents, there are parties everywhere, everyone wants to have fun and make new friends. You should definitely enjoy those things as well. I had a dreadful 1st year marks wise because I kinda took the partying thing too far, but I've managed to bounce back and my sessional average is enough to get my on the Dean's List. I did minimal studying and finished with a rather disappointing average first year based on how easy high school went for me. Everyone who is in science here got 90s in high school, the cut off in my year was 88%, so you're just like everyone else.

Now heres my opinion from someone who didn't specialize (because I couldn't). I hear my friends in other programs complain about courses they have to take. Some of them being lab courses with extremely long write-ups and harsh evaluations, other courses just being plain boring and dry. Being in lifesci I can take courses that I want and that I find interesting. A specialization may seem really cool and exciting, but maybe you should look deeper and see the courses that you need to take and see if you're actually interested in the courses in the specialization. Good luck with your choice!

Thanks for your advice!! i dont mean to be rude but if you got an average over 80... Thats more than enough to go into some specialized streams like bio chem i think, at least from what ive been told... So why didnt you cause you also mentioned that you couldnt so just wanna clarify that.
Thanks!

My sessional average this year is over 80, my cumulative is still sitting in the 70s (i can't possibly get an 80 overall even if i get A+s the the whole time). I just finished 2nd year, so I couldn't enter any specializations after 1st year because my marks sucked. My average may be good enough to enter some thing like Bio, Chemistry or PNB. Right now I'm planning on staying in life sci, and trying to get the best marks possible. I applied for Co-op (which is new for life sci students) and they said my upward grade trend looks good and I have strong chance of getting it. Like I said majors are overrated. On your university diploma it says you get an honours bachelor of science regardless off which stream you finish up in. I also enjoy the freedom to study what I like and what interests me, instead of being constrained with limited electives. In life sci you can basically take all the courses or equivalents to the courses of programs like biochem and chem bio (except for some specialized lab courses and inquiry courses). So really Im just picking what I enjoy, and thats what university, at least undergrad, should be in my opinion. Med schools and grad schools look at course pre-reqs, they don't impose you to graduate from a certain program. The program you're in also doesn't show how smart you are. I know lots of people that did extremely well in 1st year and got into the specialization they wanted, mainly because they had a really strong high school education. then in 2nd year they dropped their average down a few grade points because the courses were no longer covering prior knowledge and they didn't change their study habits to compensate.

Originally Posted by Danielrus

My sessional average this year is over 80, my cumulative is still sitting in the 70s (i can't possibly get an 80 overall even if i get A+s the the whole time). I just finished 2nd year, so I couldn't enter any specializations after 1st year because my marks sucked. My average may be good enough to enter some thing like Bio, Chemistry or PNB. Right now I'm planning on staying in life sci, and trying to get the best marks possible. I applied for Co-op (which is new for life sci students) and they said my upward grade trend looks good and I have strong chance of getting it. Like I said majors are overrated. On your university diploma it says you get an honours bachelor of science regardless off which stream you finish up in. I also enjoy the freedom to study what I like and what interests me, instead of being constrained with limited electives. In life sci you can basically take all the courses or equivalents to the courses of programs like biochem and chem bio (except for some specialized lab courses and inquiry courses). So really Im just picking what I enjoy, and thats what university, at least undergrad, should be in my opinion. Med schools and grad schools look at course pre-reqs, they don't impose you to graduate from a certain program. The program you're in also doesn't show how smart you are. I know lots of people that did extremely well in 1st year and got into the specialization they wanted, mainly because they had a really strong high school education. then in 2nd year they dropped their average down a few grade points because the courses were no longer covering prior knowledge and they didn't change their study habits to compensate.

Wow thanks again for the advice! For me I would love to be in more of thoae specialized streams just cause I think it prepares you well for grad school which is option B whereas I dont know if Hon life sci does since you are taking random science courses that interest you.

Wouldn't you want to go into a stream that interests you lol? You can basically make your own stream in life sci. If you want to go into a neuroscience grad program life sci lets you take all the psych courses + some exclusive life sci neuro courses. If i wanted to take a grad school in biochem (which by the way like a million people do, so good luck finding a job after) I could take biochem and chem bio courses, and even do a thesis 4th year with a biochem prof. See what I mean?

Originally Posted by Danielrus

My sessional average this year is over 80, my cumulative is still sitting in the 70s (i can't possibly get an 80 overall even if i get A+s the the whole time). I just finished 2nd year, so I couldn't enter any specializations after 1st year because my marks sucked. My average may be good enough to enter some thing like Bio, Chemistry or PNB. Right now I'm planning on staying in life sci, and trying to get the best marks possible. I applied for Co-op (which is new for life sci students) and they said my upward grade trend looks good and I have strong chance of getting it. Like I said majors are overrated. On your university diploma it says you get an honours bachelor of science regardless off which stream you finish up in. I also enjoy the freedom to study what I like and what interests me, instead of being constrained with limited electives. In life sci you can basically take all the courses or equivalents to the courses of programs like biochem and chem bio (except for some specialized lab courses and inquiry courses). So really Im just picking what I enjoy, and thats what university, at least undergrad, should be in my opinion. Med schools and grad schools look at course pre-reqs, they don't impose you to graduate from a certain program. The program you're in also doesn't show how smart you are. I know lots of people that did extremely well in 1st year and got into the specialization they wanted, mainly because they had a really strong high school education. then in 2nd year they dropped their average down a few grade points because the courses were no longer covering prior knowledge and they didn't change their study habits to compensate.

And one more thing if you dont mind but how did you find the first yr courses? In terms of difficulty and professors teachong it?.... Ive heard scary things about all the courses especially physics lol. But I mean I dont drink at all and im not fond of the partying environnent so for me I would just be studying, enjoying the rec center, clubs that sorta stuff.... You think its possible to pull off a min mid 80 avg by the end of first?

looking back, biology should be an easy A, assuming you don't get the old santa claus prof for the evolutionary bio (1M03), i don't know his name. Bio1a03 is not hard at all.

Chem is not bad, if you have strong high school chem (which I didn't, my chem in high school was waaaay too easy) and do practice questions from the book and tutorial you could get a 10 or an A-.

I don't like physics, not in the slightest. I took both 1l03 and 1B03 in 1st year and they were my lowest marks up to this point. I should have probably asked for more help. there is a student run initiative in the library where they help you so use that if you think you'll need it. Do more practice than just the assignments.

First year psychology 1x03 and 1xx3. I hated 1x03 and did poorly in it. I took 1xx3 this year and aced it, probably because the material was more science-neuroscience based and way more interesting.

Math 1l03 or Ls3 don't remember, is very easy, you can get an A in it. The non life sci math is much harder and i don't recommend you taking it unless you plan on going into chemistry or physics streams.

Overall 80+ is doable for sure, many people get that each year. Don't trust reviews all the time. People said organic chem was deadly tough with the prof I had this year and finished with a mark above 85. Apply yourself and you'll have no problem.

Originally Posted by Danielrus

looking back, biology should be an easy A, assuming you don't get the old santa claus prof for the evolutionary bio (1M03), i don't know his name. Bio1a03 is not hard at all.

Chem is not bad, if you have strong high school chem (which I didn't, my chem in high school was waaaay too easy) and do practice questions from the book and tutorial you could get a 10 or an A-.

I don't like physics, not in the slightest. I took both 1l03 and 1B03 in 1st year and they were my lowest marks up to this point. I should have probably asked for more help. there is a student run initiative in the library where they help you so use that if you think you'll need it. Do more practice than just the assignments.

First year psychology 1x03 and 1xx3. I hated 1x03 and did poorly in it. I took 1xx3 this year and aced it, probably because the material was more science-neuroscience based and way more interesting.

Math 1l03 or Ls3 don't remember, is very easy, you can get an A in it. The non life sci math is much harder and i don't recommend you taking it unless you plan on going into chemistry or physics streams.

Overall 80+ is doable for sure, many people get that each year. Don't trust reviews all the time. People said organic chem was deadly tough with the prof I had this year and finished with a mark above 85. Apply yourself and you'll have no problem.

Thank you very much!! I feel a little more comfortable with what you said! I was looking at this link: http://future.mcmaster.ca/programs/lifesci/ under the Honours bachelor of science programs... and all of them said a min cumulative avg of at least 6.0.... that's not the case for streams like molecular bio or chem bio or most of them is it? And how many specializations streams are you able to select for second yr? If you don't get into any of them, do they automatically place you in at least the Honours Life Science program provided you get a 6.0?

Originally Posted by Nabeel

I forgot to mention this also but I know some life sci kids told me that the highest avg to enter a specialization stream was about mid 80's for biochem which is the most popular (correct me if I'm wrong).... now as a student that always usually gets 90's from high school..... looking at that mid 80 looks like a piece of cake which is probably not the case is it? So I also wanted to keep that mind when giving me some advice hopefully. Thanks!

The cutoff changes every year. "Mid 80s" doesn't really translate well onto the 12 point scale, but I don't think the cutoff is usually above 10.

Your high school marks mean nothing. You might come from an easy school that inflates the grades - and even if you think your school is "hard", most people think that. All high school grades are inflated (hence the rapidly increasing entrance cutoffs), but some are inflated more than others. If you go in with the attitude that it will be a cakewalk, then you're more likely to do poorly. The best advice I can give you is to take it seriously and put in a solid effort.

In a high school course you have ~5 months, whereas in a university course it's ~3 months (one month of the term is exams). In 60% of the time, you're learning 2-3x as much material, while carrying a larger courseload (5 courses, instead of 3-4 in high school). Even so, I found the material in first year easiest because a good portion of it was review.

Originally Posted by Nabeel

Thank you very much!! I feel a little more comfortable with what you said! I was looking at this link: http://future.mcmaster.ca/programs/lifesci/ under the Honours bachelor of science programs... and all of them said a min cumulative avg of at least 6.0.... that's not the case for streams like molecular bio or chem bio or most of them is it? And how many specializations streams are you able to select for second yr? If you don't get into any of them, do they automatically place you in at least the Honours Life Science program provided you get a 6.0?

It's competitive for the limited enrollment programs. For the ones that aren't limited enrollment (life sci, biology, possibly some others that I don't remember) you just need the 6 cutoff. I think they would automatically place you in life sci though if you don't include a "safe" option in your four choices.

Originally Posted by starfish

The cutoff changes every year. "Mid 80s" doesn't really translate well onto the 12 point scale, but I don't think the cutoff is usually above 10.

Your high school marks mean nothing. You might come from an easy school that inflates the grades - and even if you think your school is "hard", most people think that. All high school grades are inflated (hence the rapidly increasing entrance cutoffs), but some are inflated more than others. If you go in with the attitude that it will be a cakewalk, then you're more likely to do poorly. The best advice I can give you is to take it seriously and put in a solid effort.

In a high school course you have ~5 months, whereas in a university course it's ~3 months (one month of the term is exams). In 60% of the time, you're learning 2-3x as much material, while carrying a larger courseload (5 courses, instead of 3-4 in high school). Even so, I found the material in first year easiest because a good portion of it was review.

Thanks for the advice!! were you in life sciences? Because I'm considering that and Western's biomed, although the first two yrs of Western's program have gotten strong srong feedback of achieving a high gpa,whereas Mac's first yr courses have had lesser feedback even though most students put soooo much effort, they still don't get what they deserve.... which is why I'm thinking more of Western's program. I'm also not strong at physics, in fact my high school skipped the waves unit and skimmed the electricity units, so i don't have a solid foundation and im not good with calculations :/.... but I like Mac's atmosphere better than Western and research, so don't know!

Originally Posted by Nabeel

Thanks for the advice!! were you in life sciences? Because I'm considering that and Western's biomed, although the first two yrs of Western's program have gotten strong srong feedback of achieving a high gpa,whereas Mac's first yr courses have had lesser feedback even though most students put soooo much effort, they still don't get what they deserve.... which is why I'm thinking more of Western's program. I'm also not strong at physics, in fact my high school skipped the waves unit and skimmed the electricity units, so i don't have a solid foundation and im not good with calculations :/.... but I like Mac's atmosphere better than Western and research, so don't know!

Yes I was in life sciences in first year. I'm not sure what you mean by getting strong feedback?
I didn't find Mac life sciences to be difficult at all, and I got the marks I deserve, as did all of my friends. Just because someone got a low mark, that doesn't mean they didn't deserve it.

I loved Mac. I had a great time, especially first year living in residence and everything. I can't really speak to Western's program, since I've never done it, but if I had to do undergrad over again, I'd definitely choose Mac.

While most people DO specialize (or stay in honours life sciences) for their second year, at Mac you aren't limited to doing so. I chose to stay in basic Honours Life Sciences this past year and NOW (for my third year) I am switching into Psychology, Neuroscience and Behaviour. If you don't know what you want to do after first year, or your average isn't high enough to get INTO said specialization, you can usually shadow the program and switch into it for 3rd year.