Originally Posted by dvy88

This is why the HSR is offering an Affordable Transit Program for low income individuals that can save these individuals 50% on monthly passes. Also, even after the fare increase, students are still getting an amazing deal for a bus pass that lasts them 8 months.

You're right, we do get a great deal and that is AWESOME. But that "Affordable Transit Program? You still have to be within a certain range of poverty to qualify for it, it's not exactlty inclusive although it does have the right idea in mind. The bottom line is though, I can't afford to have my services fees keep going up and up each year because of this bus system that isn't improving! Chad stated it perfectly, where the heck is all our money going to?

Originally Posted by dvy88

The HSR has opened three new routes in the city this year. This improvement is only vague to you because you probably dont use these routes but for individuals living near the Wentworth, Rymal, and Waterdown routes will definitely see the improvement. Sure, Mac is definitely a key transit destination, but Hamilton has alot of different communities to serve due to its sprawling nature.

Coleman commented on this and I agree with him. But I reiterate, if they're going to increase OUR fees, why don't WE benefit from it more? This can't be something that just a few people benefit from, that's not fair to everyone who pays for it.

Originally Posted by kokosas

Coleman commented on this and I agree with him. But I reiterate, if they're going to increase OUR fees, why don't WE benefit from it more? This can't be something that just a few people benefit from, that's not fair to everyone who pays for it.

Im pretty sure that was the approach that they were taking when they created these routes. Some of these communities that now have routes did not even have a method of public transport before. These communities payed taxes to city but saw no transit improvements until now.

All in all, improvements are being planned along the McMaster - Eastgate route, and increased fares only add to the city budget to help to fund these projects. However, I COMPLETELY understand your frustration, you may not benefiting from it personally, from future Mac students will. Its kinda like when former Mac students had to pay supplementary fees to cover the cost of the Student Centre and the Athletics Centre. We still pay these fees, but at least we get to actually enjoy using these buildings as they are pretty much finished now. Those students that paid these fees many years ago didnt have that opportunity, as the buildings were under construction. Now, we're put into the same situation.

Anyways, if anyone is interested in viewing plans/prospects for Hamilton's LRT system, theres some stuff up on the City's website.

Originally Posted by dvy88

Im pretty sure that was the approach that they were taking when they created these routes. Some of these communities that now have routes did not even have a method of public transport before. These communities payed taxes to city but saw no transit improvements until now.

All in all, improvements are being planned along the McMaster - Eastgate route, and increased fares only add to the city budget to help to fund these projects. However, I COMPLETELY understand your frustration, you may not benefiting from it personally, from future Mac students will. Its kinda like when former Mac students had to pay supplementary fees to cover the cost of the Student Centre and the Athletics Centre. We still pay these fees, but at least we get to actually enjoy using these buildings as they are pretty much finished now. Those students that paid these fees many years ago didnt have that opportunity, as the buildings were under construction. Now, we're put into the same situation.

Anyways, if anyone is interested in viewing plans/prospects for Hamilton's LRT system, theres some stuff up on the City's website.

This increase has nothing to do with LRT and none of the funds will support LRT. The City is clearly on the record as saying it will NOT fund the LRT. The city expects the province to pick up the tab.

Again, this increase has nothing to do with LRT.

In terms of the three new bus routes. Only the Waterdown bus services an area previously unserved and most of the funding for that bus is coming from the province. The funding runs out in three years. Hence the city is providing the service but making it inconvienent so that it is easy to cancel once the city has to pay for it.

Welcome to Hamilton, the city with everything going for it but somehow the politicians continue to screw things up.

Originally Posted by fullsmash26

This increase has nothing to do with LRT and none of the funds will support LRT. The City is clearly on the record as saying it will NOT fund the LRT. The city expects the province to pick up the tab.

Again, this increase has nothing to do with LRT.

http://www.thespec.com/article/453147

Check out that article, scroll down to the point where it says:

"So far, the city has spent $270,000 of the $500,000 set aside for studies and outreach on rapid transit in the 2008 budget. The work has involved about one year of combined work by three staff."

.. Yeah. That is money from the city. And it didnt just come from nowhere.

Originally Posted by dvy88

http://www.thespec.com/article/453147

Check out that article, scroll down to the point where it says:

"So far, the city has spent $270,000 of the $500,000 set aside for studies and outreach on rapid transit in the 2008 budget. The work has involved about one year of combined work by three staff."

.. Yeah. That is money from the city. And it didnt just come from nowhere.

This money is part of the transit budget which is funded by the provincial gas tax. This fare increase has nothing do with the LRT. LRT is a capital budget item, the fare increase flows into operating budget.

Originally Posted by fullsmash26

This money is part of the transit budget which is funded by the provincial gas tax. This fare increase has nothing do with the LRT. LRT is a capital budget item, the fare increase flows into operating budget.

Then consider it an investment in operating costs, after all, operating costs are going to skyrocket after LRT is built, which can only be offset by a high ridership base which is established through a perception of reliability. Riders will only find a method of transport reliable if it is frequent enough, and frequency means money.

Originally Posted by fullsmash26

Welcome to Hamilton, the city with everything going for it but somehow the politicians continue to screw things up.

bahahaha

So do students qualify for the Affordable Transit Program? The ads on the buses only state three requirements: a) need to be working, b) low income, and c) resident of Hamilton. Most students fit those specs.

However, according to a news release, people who are eligible for student fares don't get to participate in the 50% program (though I'm not sure what this means - if it's only highschool students or not - as we usually have to buy the 'adult' passes). What about students who are part-time and don't get the U-Pass, they are in need of money and transit is very expensive to them (especially with the price increases) - yet they won't qualify for the ATP?

I really think we're getting a great deal on the U-Pass as fulltime undergrads at McMaster, I've said this many times before on MacInsiders, however for the students who are part-time or for all students that can't use their u-pass during the summer break and have to buy monthly passes or tickets - most of us don't have $80/mo to spend on this, and an affordable transit program offering 50% to students should be set up in my opinion (that is, if I'm reading this wrong and the Affordable Transit Program doesn't apply to students at McMaster).

Originally Posted by kokosas

I'm sure the HSR can find more funding in other ways besides to hike up the price of their fares in a city that already has a crap load of poverty.

One is related to the other, sadly. Due to the high poverty in Hamilton it has some of the highest social services costs in the province, and ever since the Harris government downloaded those costs to the cities, Hamilton has been struggling to pay for them. Every year for the past several years Hamilton has basically had to go begging to the province for special funding just to balance their budget, since their social services costs are so high (we're talking an extra $12 million last year alone).

Since such a massive portion of the city's budget has to go to that, there isn't a lot of room for extras or niceties, and it more or less means that when costs rise for services like the HSR, it's primarily the users who are going to have to pay for it via fare hikes rather than getting funding from regular municipal taxes.

Originally Posted by kokosas

I have no investment in this city outside the fact that McMaster happens to be here.

This line of reasoning has always bothered me. Even if you don't intend to, when you buy in to a university, you buy in to the city it's located in as well. The contribution of a university to its host city (and vice versa) in economic and cultural ways is undeniable, and to me it almost smacks of elitism for students to say that they're only here for Mac and don't care about the rest of the city at all. Everyone has a part to contribute simply by virtue of living here, whether it's for a temporary period of time or not.

Originally Posted by Chad

all students that can't use their u-pass during the summer break and have to buy monthly passes or tickets

According to the report released in February, students can buy a summer transit pass...for 252.00. It is a discount on the monthly adult pass fare...but more than double the rate for the academic year. However, I have no idea where they can buy these passes...or when, for that matter.

They should take the money students put towards CFMU and put it towards the bus pass. If you wanna talk about wasting student money, start there.

The bus pass is one of the few student fees I actually get a benefit out of, so I have no objectives to it being increased.

Originally Posted by lorend

According to the report released in February, students can buy a summer transit pass...for 252.00. It is a discount on the monthly adult pass fare...but more than double the rate for the academic year. However, I have no idea where they can buy these passes...or when, for that matter.

The summer pass requires the MSU to sell them. The MSU didn't last year and I doubt they will actually do the minimal amount of work to do so this year.

Originally Posted by DavidR

They should take the money students put towards CFMU and put it towards the bus pass. If you wanna talk about wasting student money, start there.

I second that. CFMU is probably the worst spent student dollar. I'd rather see that go towards the Refugee Fund than anything to be honest. We spent over 13 dollars on a radio station that no one really listens to and only a couple bucks on a refugee fund? Anyone else seeing the stupidity here?

Originally Posted by Cippi

This line of reasoning has always bothered me. Even if you don't intend to, when you buy in to a university, you buy in to the city it's located in as well. The contribution of a university to its host city (and vice versa) in economic and cultural ways is undeniable, and to me it almost smacks of elitism for students to say that they're only here for Mac and don't care about the rest of the city at all. Everyone has a part to contribute simply by virtue of living here, whether it's for a temporary period of time or not.

Call it elitist, call it whatever. I really don't care. I don't like the city and I don't plan on staying, I have no incentives to. So why should I invest in it? I already do enough by the simple fact that I have to spend my money here in the form of basic necessities like food, clothing, housing, etc. I don't see Hamilton as contributing anything to my life, Mac does for sure, but Mac could do that from any city.