Originally Posted by ramirez.a

I am pointing out the fact that McMaster University is forecasting a deficit in the next few years, and doesn't have money to raise wages simply because UofT pays their TAs more.

... are you aware that $100,000 ever year for the next 14 years will be going to a [soon to be] retired McMaster president {which will literally be paid out of students pockets, and was unilaterally and arbitrarily announcement without ANY consent of students}... to go along with a $300,000 annual pension.

Are you aware of the amount of funds that Dr. George has brought to this school? He has paid for himself many times over.

Originally Posted by Taunton

Are you aware of the amount of funds that Dr. George has brought to this school? He has paid for himself many times over.

Show me a document that shows exactly what he's done for the students of McMaster.

Uhh...

- School of Medicine?
- School of Business?
- New sports facilities?
- Four residences?
- New Engineering building?
- New Mohawk/McMaster building?

Do you think that these things just sprang up without Dr. George's ability to procure large sums of money from donors?

Do you think that McMaster has succesfully grown in size 55% in the past 6 years because Dr. George chose not to do anything?

Do you think that McMaster isn't regarded as a top-tier research school in the world because Dr. George sat on his ass while highly regarded academics chose to come to McMaster out of the goodness of their hearts?

Do you think that Ron Joyce and Michael Degroote - neither of whom attended McMaster would have given hundreds of millions to Mac if Dr. George wasn't in charge?

Seriously... this is getting ridiculous. Mac's endowments have grown in a VERY major amount in the time that Dr. George has been here.

Originally Posted by deadpool

Uhh...

- School of Medicine?
- School of Business?
- New sports facilities?
- Four residences?
- New Engineering building?
- New Mohawk/McMaster building?

Do you think that these things just sprang up without Dr. George's ability to procure large sums of money from donors?

Do you think that McMaster has succesfully grown in size 55% in the past 6 years because Dr. George chose not to do anything?

Do you think that McMaster isn't regarded as a top-tier research school in the world because Dr. George sat on his ass while highly regarded academics chose to come to McMaster out of the goodness of their hearts?

Do you think that Ron Joyce and Michael Degroote - neither of whom attended McMaster would have given hundreds of millions to Mac if Dr. George wasn't in charge?

Seriously... this is getting ridiculous. Mac's endowments have grown in a VERY major amount in the time that Dr. George has been here.

None of these things are directly related to me as a biochemistry student in an overcrowded science faculty.

The fact of the matter is, ramirez's post is true on a lot of counts. It shows that we have a LONG way to go before McMaster is truly one of the best schools.

Originally Posted by Parnian

None of these things are directly related to me as a biochemistry student in an overcrowded science faculty.

The fact of the matter is, ramirez's post is true on a lot of counts. It shows that we have a LONG way to go before McMaster is truly one of the best schools.

So you don't have any labs or classes in MDCL? That's a major new building in the last 5 years.

Originally Posted by kleung

So you don't have any labs or classes in MDCL? That's a major new building in the last 5 years.

Nope, in fact I don't.

Rohan most probably is right; I did overhear Alex last week saying that to other random students as well; the whole Peter George gets paid a ridiculous amount of money angle. It does sound incredibly wrong at first glance and most probably is over inflated like the salaries of most CEO's in the world; I'm pretty sure it would rile up any student just like myself when I first heard it.

But Peter George has on the other side brought alot to the table because of his name/personality. That in itself has guaranteed so many donations. People were actually surprised that McMaster didn't bring in another big hitter when they chose the new President from Queens; most speculators weren't expecting him at all for only one reason: "He isn't as big a donation draw as the other candidates". But the new president is much more effective at hands on administration.

Having said that I'm still not the biggest fan of the administration; PG is only one of the MANY excessively paid Vp's we have; we even created two more last year. Their outreach with the student body & adressing their pressing concerns still could do with some improvement!

I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that the administration runs things with the altruistic student interest at large in mind. The Universities first priority has been the business side of the whole thing and the long term sustainability. Most of us here are statistics that will be gone in 4 years; I find a hard time convincing myself that we ALWAYS come first :S

Originally Posted by Parnian

None of these things are directly related to me as a biochemistry student in an overcrowded science faculty.

Although I see your point (nothing there for Humanities, which has been on the chopping block a lot since I've been here), I doubt that what was mentioned has no affect on you at all.

I've had classes in some of those buildings, used their facilities, have friends that lived in those residences, etc. Our sports teams use DBAC as do many students and the numerous ppl I know who use the gym.

Your argument seems counter productive based on the fact that you support CUPE, who is looking out for their organization on the whole...just like P.G. was/is.

Originally Posted by lorend

Although I see your point (nothing there for Humanities, which has been on the chopping block a lot since I've been here), I doubt that what was mentioned has no affect on you at all.

I've had classes in some of those buildings, used their facilities, have friends that lived in those residences, etc. Our sports teams use DBAC as do many students and the numerous ppl I know who use the gym.

Your argument seems counter productive based on the fact that you support CUPE, who is looking out for their organization on the whole...just like P.G. was/is.

That is true.

In my opinion however, it seems that CUPE seems more directly relevant to students like me then a person like Peter George. CUPE's demands are similar to mine. That is why I am supportive of the strike, whereby tutorial and lab sizes would be capped, and TAs would feel more stability in their jobs--especially graduates who are completing their PhDs.

It does take a lot of financial resources, but at the same time, I see tuition going up every year and many donations being made to McMaster. It just seems more work could be done that is directly relevant to students and TAs.

Parnian, you must be joking me. You're in BioChem. Your program exists because of the amount of researchers Dr. George's administration has managed to attract in the past 15 years.

McMaster's sciences are the direct recipients of many of the benefits of Dr. George. McMaster used to be a powerhouse Social Science school, with a nobel laureate economist, extremely strong political science program etc.

Dr. George's time has been especially good to the building of the McMaster Health Sciences, and McMaster Science programs. It's not by chance that Health Sci is regarded as one of the top 5 programs in Canada, or that Mac BioChem is so ridiculously tough to get into, or that we now have an unprecedented 2 satellite Med Schools opened in the past 2 years.

Also, most people misunderstand that the commotion of Peter George's pension had less to do with the money of it than the mysteriousness of it, and how the Administration kept it under wraps.

John Kelton has the largest pension at the school, likely the largest salary after PG retires and nobody has said a thing about that.

Originally Posted by deadpool

Parnian, you must be joking me. You're in BioChem. Your program exists because of the amount of researchers Dr. George's administration has managed to attract in the past 15 years.

McMaster's sciences are the direct recipients of many of the benefits of Dr. George. McMaster used to be a powerhouse Social Science school, with a nobel laureate economist, extremely strong political science program etc.

Dr. George's time has been especially good to the building of the McMaster Health Sciences, and McMaster Science programs. It's not by chance that Health Sci is regarded as one of the top 5 programs in Canada, or that Mac BioChem is so ridiculously tough to get into, or that we now have an unprecedented 2 satellite Med Schools opened in the past 2 years.

Also, most people misunderstand that the commotion of Peter George's pension had less to do with the money of it than the mysteriousness of it, and how the Administration kept it under wraps.

John Kelton has the largest pension at the school, likely the largest salary after PG retires and nobody has said a thing about that.

See, that's where you are incorrect. Most of the resources have been allocated to the health science faculty. The science faculty is a laughing stock. Have you seen our labs? We have 30-40 people in a biochem lab (2L06 for example) under one TA and we have to share pipettes amongst 3-4 people.

Look, my issue is not with Peter George's salary, but rather the direct impact he has had on students. I don't care if he's making 20 k versus 500k. The whole point is, presidents at McMaster and the MSU need to start looking at the complaints of the undergraduate students and TAs and negotiate on some common ground. I want smaller tutorials and to be able to ask for more help from my TAs without thinking that I'm overworking them (they only get paid for 5 hours a week). They also mark and have to prepare for their tutorials. Seriously, they and the students deserve better than that.

Now I have to go back to studying for a biochem midterm. This is all a matter of opinions, and I realize mine is entirely different from yours. That's fine.

I find it hard to believe that some students can justify a unilateral decision of a $1.4 million bonus, and argue that union demands are *too much*.

Keep in mind, PG will have a $300,000 annual pension. WHY is an extra $100,000 necessary???? ESPECIALLY out of students pockets when it is an undeniable fact that students are continuously being engulfed in debt.

It's understandable that students who agree with this bonus come from a economically privileged background - because regardless of tuition hikes, it won't effect them as they are economically well off.

But for many students who are on student loans and make extraordinary amounts of sacrifice to obtain a higher education, it is impossible to agree or associate ourselves with these practices. In fact, it would be outright ludicrous to.

This is all too hypocritical.

The typical argument I've heard against CUPE and in support of the University Admin has been the: " These are tough economic times... their isn't enough revenue.. the union is asking for too much"

In other words... because of these 'tough economic times', workers and those who are not economically privileged should bare the cost and take concessions (cut backs) to their salaraies/benefits etc..

But someone like PG and other upper administration staff have complete legitimacy and justification to increase salaries and benefits... not even mentioning any form of concessions.

... give me a break

Originally Posted by ramirez.a

It's understandable that students who agree with this bonus come from a economically privileged background - because regardless of tuition hikes, it won't effect them as they are economically well off.

I'm almost $10,000 in debt. You give me a break. Like I said before, Dr. George has paid for himself with the hundreds of millions of dollars he has attracted to McMaster.

Why should university money (which a portion of has come from me) go to an organization I don't support? I'm more than certain CUPE can take care of it's own administrative costs.

I can argue likewise. Why is my money going to an organization, called the MSU, which I don't support?

It goes both ways. There has to be negotiation and common ground.

Originally Posted by Parnian

I can argue likewise. Why is my money going to an organization, called the MSU, which I don't support?

It goes both ways. There has to be negotiation and common ground.

The same reason you pay tax to the Government of Canada, whether you like it or not.

The MSU is not like a labour union, it's more parallel to the government of a nation.