I have two degrees from Mac and couldn't get a job I actually enjoyed, so I went to college. Now I have a co-op program and will be hired right after graduation. I even had experience up the wazoo from Mac, but all it could get me was a $12/hr desk job that I hated.

I don't think I was "dooped" into going to university, but it's hard to find jobs with just a university degree. These days, it seems people either want a college diploma (where you gained hands-on experience, had co-ops, etc) or a Masters/PhD. A BA doesn't get you as far as it used to.

I could have gotten my Masters and PhD and got a job with a great salary - but I wasn't happy. It all comes down to doing what you enjoy. I'm in college for something I LOVE doing. I love it so much I do it on my spare time as well. I'll never make much money and most jobs are just above minimum wage, but at least I won't be miserable. That's what it all comes down to. You might graduate from Mac and get an entry level job that you absolutely love, or you might be stuck doing grunt work for years until you're happy.

Something else to add:
I think a lot of people go to university because they think that's what you're supposed to do. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to me. You're basically told to decide your career for the rest of your life when you're only 16 or 17. That's crazy! How can anyone know what they want to do at that age? I switched programs like 5 times at Mac, and there was never really anything that truly interested me. I think we've been given this idea of "Go to university, get a job, make money", when we should have been told "Think about what you love doing, and find a way to make money from that". I didn't know what I wanted to do until I was 22! So while I don't think we're "dooped" into going to university, I think a lot of us make that choice because we don't know what else we could be doing.

Hey Matt

First off... congrats on taking MMEDIA! I graduated from Mac with MMEDIA+CMST. And now I have a great job working in Interactive marketing (photoshop, working with people, design, promotions, events, etc) at one of Canada’s most successful integrated media and entertainment companies. So yes, there are jobs out there... plenty... you just need to know where to find them. TIP: they aren't on Monster.ca lol

But I didn't get to this point solely based on my Mac degree. Though my degree at Mac was a crutial stepping stone and a part of the 'bigger puzzle' that led to a career.

Without my time at McMaster I wouldn't be where I am today, but it wasn't about the classes (for the most part), and it wasn't about the marks or grades, it was about the experiences, the way of thinking, the profs, and the extracurriculars. Plus a bit of post-grad study.

I'll explain each below

The Experiences
While at Mac the experiences I had shaped the way I am today, thankfully the Multimedia program is very 'broad' in your first and second year so you get to try a bunch of different courses out to see which you like best. You have a lot of group projects (which better represent real life in the workplace where you will most definitely be working as part of a team or for someone else). These experiences taught me what I like to do (and can stand doing for a career) and what I really disliked or couldn't see myself doing for a long time. I won't get into specifics, since it's different for each person and you'll have different experiences, but know that your time at Mac isn't always all about the marks. It's about trying things, experimenting, failing, making mistakes, and doing it all in an enclosed environment that basically isn't real life. So you get to make those mistakes and learn from them, gain knowledge and hear advice from very talented professors, and then be ready to move on into the workplace with a whole 'toolkit' of skills and apply them.

The way of thinking
I'll tell you one thing I've noticed in my time outside of University, students with a university education for the most part seem more capable of problem solving and thinking through things in an organized manner. Think about it... while at university you've had to write essays, think through so many problems and challenges, come up with thesis - do research - and solve that problem. You may have taken a critical thinking class (I highly recommend), or needed to read or do a project on something that you may have had absolutely no interest in but later found was pretty interesting. You've taught your mind to be more open, to think critically, and to look at the bigger picture. Through your social studies you've probably also learned a lot more about how society works, and will now take most things with a grain of salt.. harder to advertise and promote to since you'll think things through first. While I was at Mac I thought to myself.... "whats the point of all these essays and useless readings?". Well there's the answer. While you may think you would have learned more 'job ready practical skills' in a college, learning JUST the skills alone won't make you successful in the real-life workplace. You need to be able to problem solve and think critically to tackle problems that come your way, and challenges your tasked with. You could have all the skills in the world, but without a plan on how to apply them, you wont be able to use them effectively. This is why this way of thinking that you learn is so important.

Extra-curriculars
How many clubs are you a part of? How many groups have you volunteered for? Have you helped run any events on campus? If the answer has been no to all of the above then you need to get out there and find something to be a part of. Being a part of MacInsiders.com is already a great first step, we've dedicated a whole section of advice bits here. If there's any tip I hope you take out of me rambling here, it's that getting involved in extra-curriculars makes all the difference when it comes to getting a job. It's the other side of the coin. The other half of your resume. And will give you the answers to 80% of the interview questions you will be asked in 'real-life'. Your people skills and how outgoing you can be will help you to network with people that can get your foot in the door of somewhere must faster than you doing it all on your own. Talking from experience, I was very shy in my first year and made it a goal of mine to be a part of things at Mac and 'come out of my shell' as some say. I started by coming to Horizons which is a leadership conference at McMaster. This conference is one you take before coming to Mac, and it really woke me up to the fact that getting involved can make a huge difference in your university experience. I later went to be a volunteer of the Horizons conference and later became one of the staff of the conference for my remaining years at Mac. It was AMAZING. I met a lot of people who were leaders on campus in other groups and services, and those connections later led to volunteering as part of CLAY (Creating Leadership Amongst Youth) conference which helps you share the leadership qualities you've learned with highschool students, it also led to a part-time job on campus (MSU Campus Events - fantastic to get involved with helping to run and promote events, concerts, Charity Ball, etc) as well as a job at University Technology Services (great for MMEDIA students looking to gain experience). During this time I also started a club (which later became MacInsiders), helped MSU Candidates with their presidential campaigns (web/graphic design) and made some strong connections with many of the people within the MSU, became a T.A. and taught first year students for a year, volunteered for business conferences Degroote runs including Canadas Next Top Ad Exec, and the McMaster World Congress (met Arlene Dickinson from Dragons Den through this conference). All amazing learning experiences, and most importantly... networking experiences.

I'm not trying to brag about what I did, you can do all of these things. Seriously. All it takes is a walk into the MSU office and ask for information. Ask to set up a time to sit down with some of the leaders within the MSU. Talk with the MSU president. Remember, they are students just like you are. Ask about all of the things I've bolded above, get in contact with the people that are currently running those things and ask them how you can be of service... how you can use your mmedia skills, photoshop skills, build them a website, etc.

Then when you're ready to graduate you can build a killer resume that lists everything you've done showing that you took initiative.

The Profs
Talk to professors that you've got close with while at Mac. Each faculty and department have 'Academic Advisors' you can speak with. For MMEDIA right now it's Robert Hamilton. You can find their contact info on the Mac website like here for example with the multimedia department. But if you haven't gotten close with Professor Hamilton, then you don't HAVE to go to him to ask for guidance or career advice... ANY prof can help give you advice because they've all be there. They all have experiences. I would highly recommend taking a visit to see Dr. Philip Savage. I T.A.'d for him and he taught me a lot and gave me a lot of very helpful advice. He's worked at many exciting places that I'll let him tell you about. Look him up and just let him know Chad sent you.

Post-grad Study
With your B.A. in hand, that alone now gets you sorted from 'Pile C' of resumes to 'Pile B'. If you've been unable to find a full-time job in your field after graduating, or still feel unsure about what direction you want to take.. then it isn't the end of the world. It just means you need to take a post-grad course to better hone your skills, and 'specialize'. Specializing can make you closer to that 'perfect fit' for a position that could get you into 'Pile A'. There are many post-grad programs out there and they will further advance your degree. Only students that graduated from university can get in and class sizes are usually very small. For example, when I graduated I knew photoshop and web design, could edit video, and knew I had to work at an agency of some sort that hired people who had those skills. But what exactly is an advertising agency? How do they work? Is it right for me? You can learn this in a post-grad course, and most have a co-op portion to them to get practical experience IN that field of work to 'test drive' it and see if you like it and want to make that your career. If you'd like more info on the post-grad program I took you can PM me and I'll let you know about it. But it sounds to me like the agency route is what you should definitely look into and do more research on. Plus there are some great events that happen in Toronto on a regular basis that are like 'career fairs' but for people like you who are into digital and interactive (TIP: thats what they call it out there... DIGITAL or INTERACTIVE don't call it 'multimedia' ).
There are many out there, the one I took was in Toronto and was great. But don't worry if you feel you're unsure or not ready yet coming out of university.

A couple other things to note:
- Take a visit to the Student Success Centre on campus. They have a lot of resources they can give you to read up on as well as people there that can sit down with you to talk you through this and give you a better understanding of the path you want to take. They are there to help you. Think of it this way... your tuition money that you're paying is being used to pay for their service... so use it! Career services can also help you craft your resume and they have workshops which I highly recommend. You can also follow them on facebook/twitter. Look them up, make an appointment, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain!

- Build a portfolio. Make sure you're keeping copies of all your work, your projects, etc. Build an online portfolio to show off video work, you can build one using Wordpress quite easily. But also be sure to design a PRINTED portfolio. You can get a portfolio book from art stores (there's one near mac called Curry's, can look it up on Google). The portfolio book has plastic sleeves to put work and show off your photoshop design. Try and put together a good variety of work to show your different styles and always pick pieces that have a story behind the that you can tell when you're showing your portfolio off to someone or a potential employer.

University is what YOU MAKE OF IT! So get out there and enjoy

For multimedia if I remember correctly all that matters is your portfolio anyway. The degree in itself is fairly worthless compared to what you do in your free time with the design programs.

Originally Posted by mattatmac

This might sound quite negative, but I'm simply voicing a concern that I think a lot of people share.

There isn't really a nice way of putting it, so i'm just going to come out and say it; what am I doing at University, and for that matter, what are a lot of people doing here? I'm in 2nd year Sociology+Multimedia, I joined these 2 subjects because I have a passion for people and photoshop, which is all well and good, but as graduation comes closer and closer I have this looming suspicion which I'm sure a lot of other students have as well.

Have we been dooped? What kind of jobs are there really for a fresh graduate of sociology, or multimedia? This very question has bothered me enough that I started asking my professors. In multimedia, I was shocked to hear variations of "well you won't' really get hired without any college experience" or "well this isn't a practical program". My greatest fear is that I'll have spent 4 years of my life and nearly $25,000 to come out of University just as unprepared for the world as when I entered.

Am I simply being paranoid or pessimistic? Have other people had this concern? Was it unwarranted?

who's we? lol.

Buddy did you say Multimedia+Sociology?
Man you can do sooo much with that...and hey if you have a true passion for it, through hell or high water you will become successful, it may take some time but you will do good dont worry about it.
Iam not trying to be the sympathetic guy here..no!
You gotta work your ass off to get something...to get anything
Have you considered countries aside from Canada?
The Asian countries in general (India, Thailand, Singapore) all those places are in their development phase and they could always use a guy with your accomplishments..just sayin

Well, I'm doing a H. BSc right now and I knew before I entered university that just an undergrad in science is probably not enough to get me a good position or well-paying job. I knew that I'd have to do co-op, get a college certificate, or go to grad/professional school. Unless I wanted a low-paying research position, a bachelor's degree alone wouldn't really cut it anymore.

This is probably true for most undergrads right now (except for professional ones like nursing or engineering).

I think much of it depends on your values as a person. Some people choose a program in something they don't really care much for at all just because they want to make a lot of money when they finish school. For those people, money is obviously of pretty high importance to them. That's not to say some people don't actually enjoy their program that will allow them a high salary in the end. Others would rather study something they really enjoy, regardless of whether they will make a lot of money.

I know you were saying you were mainly concerned about finding a job after school, but in any field of study there is no guarantee that you will find one right out of school or in the exact area you want. It has much to do with the effort you put in yourself and outside of your studies (i.e. networking, volunteering, internships, etc.)

A good chunk of my program is sociology and I enjoy it. I also like that it gives you a lot of freedom in the areas you can work in or pursue further study in after completing a degree.

On the self-teaching thing, I have to agree with you on that. I think social sciences or humanities students probably have to do it the most, but overall university relies so much on it in general which can be frustrating considering we're paying out all this money to essentially teach everything to ourselves. I went to college before university and in regards to teaching, college is definitely much better.

Originally Posted by Jman.

For multimedia if I remember correctly all that matters is your portfolio anyway. The degree in itself is fairly worthless compared to what you do in your free time with the design programs.

Great point about what you do in your spare time. What you do within the classroom is usually just a starting point. If you're looking for a job in design then design should be your hobby. Your passion. You should be designing outside of school doing freelance projects and building a portfolio up with those sort of items so it isn't all just school projects in there.

Can check out sites like webfreelancing.com, elance.com, and oDesk which posts freelance jobs if you're looking to build your portfolio up, and check out blogs like freelanceswitch on a regular basis

It doesn't matter how high of a GPA you end with, how many connections you make, or what co-op term you go on. What matters is that you tie all three of those into the person you are and make sure they match up. If something doesn't, you will fail after the completion of your university degree. You'll either not get a job, or you'll see the fallout some years after; deep into your career/field.


Having a degree is nice, it is good to keep the degree printing presses in check and make sure they work consistently. Frame manufacturers also need to stay in business too.

Being a master of your true craft, knowing your craft and how to integrate your fortes into the said craft is something else. I can't really describe it. University is really a meta-phase of training in the field of common sense and the preparation for the infrastructures and dynamics of the real world. The tools you pick up for the career you want are mostly taught in 10 to 15 courses max of your 60 courses. So just make sure you know where you'd like to be, what you'd like to know in order to be there, and what you'd like to avoid.

If you don't know, don't go to university. Don't. Go to college and work. Find out what it is that you want and then come back strong with the confidence of not knowing what you'd like, but the confidence of knowing yourself.

Where I come from.... I have to take very difficult examinations and my study areas are pre-picked for me by my country based on those test scores. In Canada, you merely complete some courses in highschool / college and go into university with relative freedom to branch out to what it is you wish to learn about and focus on. So use this chance and forge a path that fits you exactly. If that path is the path that you truly seek, I can guarantee you that you will be successful.

Don't forget that university is also a collegiate environment. Be social, work in teams. The way group situations carry over to the real world is frighteningly seamless. If you can't, work on it.

There is so much more to say..

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Be well

You will be fine. Don't worry. A university degree will NEVER hurt you. You're already better off than all of the people working fresh out of highschool or who can't afford university.

As a social science student I knew exactly what I was getting into as far as job prospects go with that degree and planned on post grad from the beginning. I also knew how important the skills learned in a social science undergrad would be though. Social science has a very interesting mix of students, expectations and realities. It is not difficult to spot those after post grad, simply a job and those that are just there for the hell of it.

In general, I think pretty much most university degrees have been devalued because there are just too many of them out there. A post grad degree is the new undergrad degree. As Chad said, your degrees just get you sorted from pile C to pile B to pile A. Many university degrees simply show non specialized employers you made it through university and that is all they need to know. University teaches you how to think, organize, plan and communicate particularly in the social sciences. People who have gone to university are considered "different" and degrees mean less than the individual person, their experience, skills and connections when it comes to finding a job.

In my program, I would expect that about 80% are planning on post grad and 50% of that are planning on law school. Some will be disappointed but many will not. Either way the rates will still be very high compared to other programs since it is largely just a stepping stone. Students pretty much knew that going into it even though it is a fairly practical program as far as social sciences go. Those in it for the money go post grad and those in it for the cause stick with an undergrad. Some of the brightest minds and hardest working students at Mac are in my program and it is quite difficult to get the high marks in subjective social sciences required to get into post grad programs. Alternatively, it is too easy to get into a 3 year BA program and graduate with a 4 average which cheapens the status of the degree. People then complain about not being able to get a job with a BA, like it was the BA's fault, making it look even worse.

I wouldn't say we are being duped since anyone smart enough to go to university should be aware of the job prospects for their chosen degree and that any degree still places you in a positions not available to all job seekers. I don't think a day goes by without hearing some high school drop out say a university degree is worthless as they mop the floor so the last we need is those with them saying the same thing. Those people out there with degrees and no jobs have little else to blame but themselves. They messed up either expecting too much from their degree or by not developing any other relevant skills. Any type of degree is just part of the equation not the answer when it comes to jobs.

I have to disagree with those who say that social science degrees are useless. You will learn a lot of applicable and transferable skills, regardless of the field you eventually go into. The trick on graduation will be to work those skills and make the contacts required to find meaningful work.

A creative arts degree got me into law..I got a highly sought articling position I wanted even though I was an average B. I would have to say that in interviews and in my presentation materials I was passionnate about what I wanted to do and sold my skills well.

I had also spent time as an exchange student, had traveled, had varied student work experiences, had competed in high level sports. Although this was a long time ago, everything that I read leads me to think that this is still applicable. As an employer today, I don't really look at your marks, I look at the big picture, who you are and what you can convince me that you can do.

For all of those who believe that a science degree is more valuable, unless you want a job in science, nothing could be further from the truth. Research, critical thinking, STRONG WRITING AND PRESENTATION SKILLS, human skills such as networking, teamwork, those will serve you and will be transferable to almost any field. Find yourself a mentor in the job area you want to get into, attend events, meet people, be bold and work will find you.

Good luck.

It's time to extrapolate transferable skills from your degree.

A lot of people go into careers that is not related to what they studied in undergrad.

Perhaps consider furthering your education with grad school studies or college after you graduate from your bachelor's.

Don't feel bad. Unless you choose a professional program like nursing, rad sci, a doctor program or some other in demand program of the sort, most university degrees are useless in the job market.

A lot of the people I know who chose such worthless majors are in practical college programs learning tangible skills. A few of the lucky ones were those born with connections (family) and were able to secure sweet jobs.

that was a good read chad. all this talking and still trying to do all that stuff while survivng eng. Btw iv tried looking and wondered what u would need for a uts job application/reqs/where to find