So there's a strike. so what?

as a union they have the right to strike if their situation is unfair.

the MSU is a union. [The Mcmaster students union.]
If those in charge at Mac did something crazy like triple tuition for all courses in 2nd term or something. Wouldn't we go on strike?

There would be some students who want to learn instead of picket, these students would be able to find resources to afford the tuition increase (they're richer, they are taking fewer courses, are fine with more loans, can get loans more easily, etc). They'd be for crossing picket lines.
And these students might think it would be cool to make fun of those that are picketing and think that striking is such a silly idea and post about it on an internet forum.

Is this hypothetical student strike unfair to the students who are able to afford schooling (classes might get canceled because profs and Mac staff find it hard to cross the picket lines), and unfair to McMaster's reputation and integrity? yes. But how else are things going to change?

Similar with this TA strike. They want their conditions to change. Things won't change for them unless they strike. They have obviously tried bargaining.

Is the TA strike unfair to the students? Yes. But how else are they going to get things to change?

tl;dr Let them strike. Stop being idiots on the internet.

Nothing was wrong with the conditions we already had. If someone was unsatisfied with the TAship that McMaster offered them for their grad work, they should have gone somewhere else; Instead they went here and then complained.

It's not like it was a big secret to the compensation they were going to receive. They just chose to come here regardless of it.

A union has every right to strike if they feel a deal they're being offered is unfair.

The problem with CUPE...

They don't actually care if the union members, the TAs/RAs in this case actually feel the deal they're being offered is unfair or if they actually want to strike or not.

CUPE isn't giving its membership the opportunity to vote on the final offer.

This isn't the TAs striking against something they feel is unfair, this is the TAs being forced to strike against something they may or may not agree with because the union isn't putting the offer to a vote and they're threatening negative action against anyone who chooses to cross the picket line.

CUPE does not properly represent our TAs. CUPE doesn't care about students, TAs or otherwise.

I'm all for this strike because I noticed their demands are directly related to improving my education.

They want to cap class sizes, I agree with it. I am tired of being one student out of 60 students in a tutorial or even 50 in a science lab, and treated just like a number.

They want to increase undergraduate TA wages so that it's more likely for McMaster to hire graduate TAs, I agree with it because my best TA's are graduates (since McMaster just wants to save money and screw the students).

They want to make it such that 5th and 6th year Ph.D. students know they have a job, I agree with it. Maybe the TAs won't be so stressed out and finally feel they are in a stable position. Plus, they are even MORE educated and likely to be amongst the best TAs.

They want to increase the TAs hours from 260 to 280, that just makes sense. Many of my TA's are overworked and are not thus not being compensated. Plus, the rest of the Ontario universities already have 280 hours contracted in.

As a student at McMaster University, I agree with it. The system needs to be changed. This strike is DIRECTLY related to my education.

Originally Posted by Parnian

I'm all for this strike because I noticed their demands are directly related to improving my education.

They want to cap class sizes, I agree with it. I am tired of being one student out of 60 students in a tutorial or even 50 in a science lab, and treated just like a number.

They want to increase undergraduate TA wages so that it's more likely for McMaster to hire graduate TAs, I agree with it because my best TA's are graduates (since McMaster just wants to save money and screw the students).

They want to make it such that 5th and 6th year Ph.D. students know they have a job, I agree with it. Maybe the TAs won't be so stressed out and finally feel they are in a stable position. Plus, they are even MORE educated and likely to be amongst the best TAs.

They want to increase the TAs hours from 260 to 280, that just makes sense. Many of my TA's are overworked and are not thus not being compensated. Plus, the rest of the Ontario universities already have 280 hours contracted in.

As a student at McMaster University, I agree with it. The system needs to be changed. This strike is DIRECTLY related to my education.

Whether or not the demands are reasonable doesn't change the fact that TAs are forced into a union that doesn't care about them.

They may or may not agree with the University's final offer but they aren't being given the choice to vote on it either way. They have expressed a desire to CUPE to vote on McMaster's offer instead of having it rejected flat out for them. They have expressed a desire NOT to strike, CUPE still doesn't care.

I support the TAs and I agree that they should be compensated fairly and that if they truly have these demands the University should take them seriously and give them a fair offer. However I DO NOT support their union, CUPE who clearly doesn't give a damn about them and isn't listening to them. CUPE is forcing this strike on them and rejecting the latest offer the University has tabled flat out without allowing them to reject it for themselves, or accept it, whatever they actually want.

I support fairness and the most unfair thing right now is CUPE's treatment of our TAs.

The irony of what you are saying is that the union wants to help the TAs by lessening their load (lowering class sizes and compensating for more hours), but then you say they don't treat them well at the same time. That is a blazing contradiction.

The TAs are getting strike pay, believe it or not. They may actually make MORE than their current pay by picketing.

Simply put, I think the universities are screwing over both TAs AND students. There is a lot of mis-education going on! I only have my original post to offer. Sorry if you don't agree but that's me. I am simply giving my support to those TAs that are being exploited, and that they get their fair due.


**EDIT**
You do realize the CUPE union is what has secured all the benefits and wages of TAs in the past? You're putting down the very same organization that put them in place.

My only point is that CUPE should allow them to vote directly on the University's offer and they shouldn't be forced into being part of a union if they don't want to. Not everyone agrees with unions and having a union forced upon you is unfair. You can argue on and on about unions getting benefits for workers etc but that still doesn't mean everyone wants to be a part of a union, for whatever reason.

CUPE says they're fighting for what TAs want so why won't they let them vote on whether or not they want the University's deal?

CUPE can fight and bargain for them until the cows come home but ultimately denying them the opportunity to vote on the deal they are being offered defeats the entire purpose.

If a vote was conducted and 1 TA who is being exploited called for a strike where 99 others are "just fine and dandy", are you going to ignore that 1 vote?

This is about EXPLOITED teaching assisants. And I can guarantee you, there is more than 1 TA being abused in the system.

And if they don't want a union, I'm all for it. The university would LOVE that.

See it's easy to support something when you actually need the help, it's difficult to support something when you realize it's not you that needs the help but in fact, someone else in the group needs it.

Originally Posted by PTGregD

Nothing was wrong with the conditions we already had. If someone was unsatisfied with the TAship that McMaster offered them for their grad work, they should have gone somewhere else; Instead they went here and then complained.

It's not like it was a big secret to the compensation they were going to receive. They just chose to come here regardless of it.

Going back to the example of the MSU. I always here about the MSU lobbying to reduce tuition fees or for better student treatment. Why even do that when we know what we're getting into when we apply to universities right? We then come here and complain. Damn we're dumb.



It's is expected that wages increase in line with costs.
If tuition increases at Mac, but wages have not increased as much then the TAs overall are worse off than before.

One goal of Mac is to cut down their costs, this includes TA pay. Mac is reluctant to increase wages. It is up to the TAs to make sure they are getting paid what they deserve and are treated fairly. They have to put pressure on Mac to do so since bargaining doesn't seem to work.

P.S. I actually don't know why CUPE is striking. I assume it's for a valid reason.

@sew
The MSU is a union I am part of, and which you are part of, which I am forced into.

Being part of a union has many benefits, such as job security and there's no favouritism in the workplace (i.e. everyone gets the same pay and treatment)

Originally Posted by Parnian

If a vote was conducted and 1 TA who is being exploited called for a strike where 99 others are "just fine and dandy", are you going to ignore that 1 vote?

This is about EXPLOITED teaching assisants. And I can guarantee you, there is more than 1 TA being abused in the system.

And if they don't want a union, I'm all for it. The university would LOVE that.

See it's easy to support something when you actually need the help, it's difficult to support something when you realize it's not you that needs the help but in fact, someone else in the group needs it.

Ok, well, I'll tell you what: find that 1 TA who feels "exploited", get them to tell their side of the story. Because those other 99 TAs are feeling incredibly frustrated that things are being done in their name that they do not agree with, to their detriment.

You people are completely missing the point (either that or FireDragonX is again just trying to stir the pot).

No one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to strike or that they don't deserve more benefits or the opportunity to fight for the demands they want.

All we're saying is CUPE is not allowing their membership to decide on what is being offered to them and they're threatening all those who don't agree with them. This is unfair.

Originally Posted by Parnian

Simply put, I think the universities are screwing over both TAs AND students. There is a lot of mis-education going on! I only have my original post to offer. Sorry if you don't agree but that's me. I am simply giving my support to those TAs that are being exploited, and that they get their fair due.

I appreciate your perspective and insight. I'm not intending to criticize your view here, I just think that as a TA you're attempting to defend, I should offer my input.

The irony of what you are saying is that the union wants to help the TAs by lessening their load (lowering class sizes and compensating for more hours), but then you say they don't treat them well at the same time. That is a blazing contradiction.

It's all about how you look at it. In my perspective, as a TA running a full-size tutorial (I'm the only TA for my course, so I get all of the students in one tutorial room), lowering class sizes would not 'lighten my load.' Perhaps it would have for the first week or two of tutorials where I was majorly freaked out in front of such a large audience, but now that I'm more comfortable (Ah loves them kids. ), there's virtually no difference to me.

On the other hand, going on strike impacts me negatively...not only as a TA, but as a student as well. (If I had my choice, I wouldn't be in a union at all: I pay my union dues (without consent), I know my place.)

The TAs are getting strike pay, believe it or not. They may actually make MORE than their current pay by picketing.

This isn't true actually...I get about $38/hour, for 5 hours a week, according to my pay stubs. Picketting pays quite a bit less.

Not to mention, it would require that I picket to support the strike, which I don't. I'd be selling my soul for 50 pieces of silver so to speak, just to make back some of the money I'm entitled to by having the job in the first place.

**EDIT**
You do realize the CUPE union is what has secured all the benefits and wages of TAs in the past? You're putting down the very same organization that put them in place.

Though this is true, it's not like we can rewind time, and see how things would play out otherwise. Perhaps if we had no union things would be utter chaos...but perhaps not. Perhaps we would have individualized relationships with our supervisors/the university staff and we would be able to send genuine requests for funding on an individual basis.

I'm not saying it would be better without a union (infact, in my opinion here at Mac, the union/no-union discussion is really a Lose-Lose situation), I'm just saying the fact that we have a union and things are 'somewhat ok' doesn't mean the union is doing its job.

It's like on the Simpsons where Lisa jokingly tells Homer that 'this rock keeps tigers away.' Homer then, being a buffoon, buys the rock from Lisa.

Originally Posted by FireDragoonX

P.S. I actually don't know why CUPE is striking. I assume it's for a valid reason.

So you don't even have your facts straight, and just jump to a conclusion supporting CUPE. Sigh.

So many of your posts are just flamebait that it's ridiculous. But I guess that's the power you get when you are anonymous since you obviously don't want people to link your opinion to who you are. You're like one of only a handful of people on here who don't disclose who they are.

Thank you Mowicz for your input. I truly appreciate it.

I understand your situation but is it not true that there are some TAs that do not have it as easy as you? I have heard many complaining that they have 60-70 students in a tutorial and having to mark labs which may take up to 20 hours, hours that are not compensated for in the end. The complaints are largely deriving from the science and engineering faculties, and less so from say the political science faculty.

My issue here is that there are some TAs that feel they are getting the short end of the stick, and unfortunately, the TAs that are doing well are just telling them to "suck it up". It is really bizarre to me.

Do you have examples of courses that have 60-70 kids in a tutorial? Or even half that in a lab?

(Excluding courses like Psych 2F03, any first year Calc, etc, where tutorials are a lecture style).

Because I've never had anything close to that, and first year science has some of the biggest classes on campus. You'd think that would be where the most crowding would take place.