On a constructive note: you do bring up a great point about some forums not being utilized and not having new threads in them for a while.

Might make sense to consolidate them, archive the old forums not being used, and just keep a "General Discussion" and "Academic Discussion" forum open as two overall buckets of content to post in. Then archive all the rest and close them off. I'll look into doing this. Thanks for the idea!

ok w/e that is fine.

but when would you say was the peak of this site? what made it important and worthwhile?
was it not when an actual macinsiders personality, with 400+ posts started a thread and then it got 30+ responses from other actual real mac studetns with 400+ posts?

Originally Posted by mitski

two part critique. There are barely 30 000 enrolled mcmaster students paying tuition. You receive 30 000 views. Yet how many of them truly contribute to a community? If you get that many, and they all don't add literally anything, that is a big problem fam. Why aren't they staying and joining? that is why i initially suggested a wiki, or a yahoo answers. and if that is where you are at, make the wiki. b/c that is what those are for, disseminating info. not community. which is fine. that is great, and a great service you could singularly provide.


if you want something social and real time, we're going to have to think harder

A solid observation. My guess is that...

a) the forum system this site runs on is quite clunky and not intuitive compared to the new systems out today that the new gen of students are used to (twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat, even WordPress comments). Keep in mind... it was built back in 2007. They are used to easy sign up with 1 click, login with facebook/twitter and in they go and they can start writing and posting. Not here. It's more of a vetted process with a big registration form and lots of questions. To a newbie, this can be daunting. And with people being more and more cautious of their information and privacy, we probably get a lot of registration page visitors who never sign up and leave because it looks daunting.

b) building on the last answer, the forum system itself is not a known concept for the new gen of students who grew up with facebook and instant answers and their friends being built into the social network. Forums are an older system that categorize content and the concept of 'threads' is something that has been lost with newer communication tools... facebook posts where people comment fast and move on and it gets buried into the social media 'abyss' is the new way of things. Hard to search and find questions already asked. If I were to relaunch the site, I'd find a happy medium between an organized, searchable database of Q&As, but the fast interactivity and loading that new gen students expect.

c) the reason for coming to macinsiders in the past few years has shifted because there's less chatter/referral from students on campus, since we don't have an active on-campus presence anymore. So people tend to find us now through organic search, typing problems/questions into google and stumbling across our forums where we have answered it in the past. They come, read the answer, and leave. Most don't see the value of an online community as much as in the past, when they can do a quick search with their smartphone and find an answer without having to talk to anyone, engage with anyone, start a discussion, etc. I've seen the paradigm has changed to one where people rely on a much smaller core group of friends via snapchat/text message, etc. for help and less on larger communities-at-large. Which is a shame. Besides Facebook groups, can you name any communities online that are specific to McMaster / students that you currently would use or support?

facebook is already passe, unless this people are complete normies, which i know most mac students are tbh.

I do guess topic/forums have bee on decline for at least a decade, even slightly before SA died its harsh death.

I know of one other forum that also died, but none of its members actually had a physical relationship to an institution so i figured that was the problem.

a chan would be okay, but i dont htink there are enough mac students that could into it.

Even thesil's comment sections are literally dead (and always have been)

You know, when msu presidential candidates got eaten alive by macinsider regulars, you really had something.

Originally Posted by mitski

ok w/e that is fine.

but when would you say was the peak of this site? what made it important and worthwhile?
was it not when an actual macinsiders personality, with 400+ posts started a thread and then it got 30+ responses from other actual real mac studetns with 400+ posts?

Depends on what you would consider a 'peak' - is that site engagement? pageviews? member sign ups?

For the forums, personally I really enjoyed the discussions and users we had on the site from the very beginning up till around a few years back when most of the MacInsiders volunteer team graduated. We had some really lively discussions. There were also a bunch of entertaining trolls on the site lol.

But believe it or not, our 'peak' years in terms of user activity with new threads, etc. was in 2013 (biggest year for forum activity) and 2014. It was only in 2015 that our forum activity began to decline, and this was a large part because the new students who started in 2015 were not told about MacInsiders by the university or onboarding teams. Most of the students who grew up with MacInsiders who were on the teams and told students about us had graduated and the university also stepped up it's game in 2015 on Facebook to run 'official' groups where they actually staffed them properly and helped answer questions in them (kudos to them for doing that). So students could get official answers from McMaster staff via those groups, and no longer had to turn to MacInsiders. So in that sense, we did our job by getting McMaster to finally invest in a solution for students to get answers faster and in a better, more interactive medium. Our forums served their purpose. Facebook is a good solution since students can still voice opinions uncensored, while staff can moderate and keep out spammers.

So the need for forums has decreased, but it doesn't necessarily mean close up shop and move on. If you learn anything in university business class... you simply alter your offering to suit the demand. You pivot. Clearly people still have the need for advice, tips, and have questions. But the medium and way they seek them has changed with the new technology out there and the behaviors of the new generation of students.

Pivoting is definitely possible and interesting. What that new solution looks like I'm not sure yet, but being open, nimble, and positive is a good start.

Originally Posted by mitski

facebook is already passe, unless this people are complete normies, which i know most mac students are tbh.

I do guess topic/forums have bee on decline for at least a decade, even slightly before SA died its harsh death.

I know of one other forum that also died, but none of its members actually had a physical relationship to an institution so i figured that was the problem.

a chan would be okay, but i dont htink there are enough mac students that could into it.

Even thesil's comment sections are literally dead (and always have been)

You know, when msu presidential candidates got eaten alive by macinsider regulars, you really had something.

Yes, forums as a platform are old now. WordPress has better solutions I might explore which are easier to use for Q&A style sites and much more mobile friendly (since over 50% visit via mobile these days).

SA and 4Chan are interesting examples, but they are very specific forums... they are mainly for entertainment purposes, amusing discussion, trolls, and humor. Finding a destination specific for McMaster - and with a mix of that humor/entertainment but also serious discussion and a place to get help with serious topics of academics... that's basically non existent now (at least that I am aware of) besides awkwardly posting in a spammy FB group or texting a friend in your class.

Are there any group apps out there that students now use these days? How do students get help or aid one another with academic/class related discussion outside of university-run properties? Group messaging apps? Anonymous apps? A lot of those anonymous apps are just for making fun of people or trash talking. Not for peer help.

Ya, the elections were a fun time in the forums here. One of the main reasons I started MI in the first place was to have a place students could voice opinions without their post being removed if it went against what the university was doing. Having constructive debate is critical IMHO. If you can believe it, the MSU actually tried to start their own forum but it was shut down fairly quickly. A few big players (facebook, twitter, instagram, etc) dominate the conversation these days as being the main platforms for students to discuss. And with their algorithms (particularity FB), they are shaping which posts you see, and thus skewing what you read and consider important. Forums, as a communication mechanism, acted very differently... essentially as buckets of conversations that you could click and jump into any one at any time, and you had to use your critical thinking skills you learn at university to sift through the topics to ones you thought were meaningful or interesting... now FB does that for you and essentially tells you... hey.. you should like this. I think you'll like this. And hides what it thinks you won't care about.

Originally Posted by Chad

Depends on what you would consider a 'peak' - is that site engagement? pageviews? member sign ups?

For the forums, personally I really enjoyed the discussions and users we had on the site from the very beginning up till around a few years back when most of the MacInsiders volunteer team graduated. We had some really lively discussions. There were also a bunch of entertaining trolls on the site lol.

But believe it or not, our 'peak' years in terms of user activity with new threads, etc. was in 2013 (biggest year for forum activity) and 2014. It was only in 2015 that our forum activity began to decline, and this was a large part because the new students who started in 2015 were not told about MacInsiders by the university or onboarding teams. Most of the students who grew up with MacInsiders who were on the teams and told students about us had graduated and the university also stepped up it's game in 2015 on Facebook to run 'official' groups where they actually staffed them properly and helped answer questions in them (kudos to them for doing that). So students could get official answers from McMaster staff via those groups, and no longer had to turn to MacInsiders. So in that sense, we did our job by getting McMaster to finally invest in a solution for students to get answers faster and in a better, more interactive medium. Our forums served their purpose. Facebook is a good solution since students can still voice opinions uncensored, while staff can moderate and keep out spammers.

So the need for forums has decreased, but it doesn't necessarily mean close up shop and move on. If you learn anything in university business class... you simply alter your offering to suit the demand. You pivot. Clearly people still have the need for advice, tips, and have questions. But the medium and way they seek them has changed with the new technology out there and the behaviors of the new generation of students.

Pivoting is definitely possible and interesting. What that new solution looks like I'm not sure yet, but being open, nimble, and positive is a good start.

I think if you forced Mac into giving truthful answers, that is very very strange. lol why didn't they always? (i know why im just saying). Can you not find a way to continue to exist within the answers they still don't cover to stay relevant? The way media outlets keep pushing, although I never thought of this as formally, informally, or even interested in freedom of information or activistist, I can see how that is a realistic offshoot when students start asking questions among themselves. I know joey coleman went onto some real media after mac, but i personally dont know of any others, other than a TON of shills that now bend over at CBC

There are some serious freedom of info questions still needing to be resolved from some of the top brass at mcmaster btw (especially in terms of certain money)

There are still some big questions about the failures of university, and problems of university, maybe a place to vent/organize?

which trolls did you hate and which did you like?

Originally Posted by Chad

... now FB does that for you and essentially tells you... hey.. you should like this. I think you'll like this. And hides what it thinks you won't care about.

I think it is debatable, but a basic problem of fb is it isn't local, and when we read international stories we realistically know we can;t do anything about them, this reifies those problems and gives us the sense of a lack of agency, even in terms of distance. Sometimes the local can be BORING, but if you can somehow filter info about even somewhat interesting hamilton or mcmaster topics, with a few trolls to drop some shit on top of a selfimportant mac person, or city official, students will start seeing some kind of agency in the world around them - like they can really mess with the ppl doing bs

like. can some trolls drop some shit on those two new bylaws in the area?

Originally Posted by mitski

I think if you forced Mac into giving truthful answers, that is very very strange. lol why didn't they always? (i know why im just saying).

I never said McMaster wasn't truthful. Just that in the past (we're talking 4+ yrs ago) they didn't have university-run, staffed channels via social media and left students to have to contact their departments directly with questions. The last Facebook group we manage is "Class of 2017". Class of 2018 and onward up to 2020 now, were created by, and are managed by the university officially, which is great.

Originally Posted by mitski

Can you not find a way to continue to exist within the answers they still don't cover to stay relevant?

For sure. That's the plan. Our articles are popular for a reason, they cover a lot of topics that aren't covered by the university in their welcome booklets. And they tend to be more blunt, and written from a 'realist' no 'bs' perspective since they are written by students who have gone through the experience themselves and are sharing their lessons learned. Vs reading it in a news article (CBC, etc) or university publication, which tend to not be from an authentic student voice. And there's obvious reason for that, if you're sending out welcome materials you want them to be as inviting and positive as possible so that incoming students dont worry about things or get concerned about anything. But the truth is, the new generation of students don't trust a lot of what they are told and want to hear the 'real', potentially 'harsh' truth of what they should expect so that they can prepare for it. They don't want to feel 'babied' like they can't handle reality. (at least from what I've experienced talking with new students). They are a lot more skeptical, which is a good thing in my opinion. Means that they are doing more of their own research and not taking things at face value.

Originally Posted by mitski

The way media outlets keep pushing, although I never thought of this as formally, informally, or even interested in freedom of information or activistist, I can see how that is a realistic offshoot when students start asking questions among themselves. I know joey coleman went onto some real media after mac, but i personally dont know of any others, other than a TON of shills that now bend over at CBC

There are some serious freedom of info questions still needing to be resolved from some of the top brass at mcmaster btw (especially in terms of certain money)

I'm not sure about your specific examples you're referring to, but in general... "students asking questions among themselves" can be very powerful. Like I said earlier, not taking things at face value and talking with your peers, doing your research, and having dialogue to figure out things together, support each other, etc. that is the whole concept of peer help, and what forums were made for.

Originally Posted by mitski

There are still some big questions about the failures of university, and problems of university, maybe a place to vent/organize?

That would probably be more of a Facebook thing, just because of the sheer connectedness to friends and family.

Re: a place to vent. Again, twitter and FB serve that purpose. Platforms just made solely to 'vent' are typically not constructive or help anything. No one wants to read other people complaining with no action plan or solutions. It would be a downer, and who likes downers? When creating MacInsiders, this was a very big part of the Community Guidelines. They were crafted to try and avoid endless ranting and complainers.

Originally Posted by mitski

which trolls did you hate and which did you like?

Where do I start? lol. If there's one thing I've learned, it's don't feed the trolls. Especially their ego

a thread for each candidate at the msu election thing, whether they want it or not, let members grill the shit out of them. who knows, it might spark some kind of revival in the shortterm or, a shitstorm

rly you had to get a kick out of some of macinsiders' finest. Troll hall of fame when?

Would be interesting to see which users had the most 'down votes' or flags. But a hall of fame to congratulate trolls and make them compete for being the most troll worthy probably wouldn't end so well haha.

Thanks for the ideas! will see where things go in the next 'rebirth' of MacInsiders.

Enjoy

Forums have been pruned to the basics. Thanks.

http://www.macinsiders.com/forumdisp...ersity-21.html

well I figured you had given up, but i guess you've thought about this all more than i realized.

i remember threads used to get tons of say thanks and like this

I think the forum is alive and well. It's a vibrant community and I'm glad it was created. Sometimes it really helps to have an alternate source of getting answers to questions from your peers and maybe from people who have already experienced the trials of university.