Hey everyone
I'm pretty sure the question I'm about to ask is one of the most typical questions ever, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find an specific answer to this question, plus I wanted to ask it from MAC students as well.
My situation:
Grd. 12
My top 6 average is almost 93
Applied to MAC, Western, UofT, York, and Ottawa.
My goal is to get into medical/dentistry school so I'm trying to find the program that fits me and my goal the best. As far as I know, MAC's Health science is one of the best programs in all science programs. but the question is: why is it so competitive?
As I've heard, medical schools just care about your GPA and the MCAT score (extracurricular activities and references are important as well.) In this situation, why dont people try to get into an easy programs at York to get a High GPA and then go to Ottawa for med school which doesnt need MCAT? I'm confused...
(My choice in the order is MAC Health science - MAC Life science - MAC Medical Radiation - York Kin - York Life science)

Originally Posted by fograd

Hey everyone
I'm pretty sure the question I'm about to ask is one of the most typical questions ever, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find an specific answer to this question, plus I wanted to ask it from MAC students as well.
My situation:
Grd. 12
My top 6 average is almost 93
Applied to MAC, Western, UofT, York, and Ottawa.
My goal is to get into medical/dentistry school so I'm trying to find the program that fits me and my goal the best. As far as I know, MAC's Health science is one of the best programs in all science programs. but the question is: why is it so competitive?
As I've heard, medical schools just care about your GPA and the MCAT score (extracurricular activities and references are important as well.) In this situation, why dont people try to get into an easy programs at York to get a High GPA and then go to Ottawa for med school which doesnt need MCAT? I'm confused...
(My choice in the order is MAC Health science - MAC Life science - MAC Medical Radiation - York Kin - York Life science)

health sci is competitive because it is one of the easiest undergrads in canada and allows you to pretty much always get a high gpa with the program is set up (no midterms/finals/labs). i wouldnt call it the best science program. undergrad degree doesnt matter at though for your goal, but you prob would do better in courses you enjoy (tough to enjoy all courses though). some schools are easier than others probably but i believe all schools give you a chance to get a high gpa so if youre really focused, you can do well in most places. some schools/courses obviously require more effort though. also, with med rad, it is tough do prereqs for professional schools because there isnt much elective space. med rad at mac is a solid program but research it more before making decisions because lots of my med rad friends in 1st year wanted med school or something but realized they couldnt fulfill prereqs so they didnt even bother and just went with their nice job they got from the medrad degree.

Health sci is macs unofficial answer to the need in Ontario for a "premed" program like the 6 year premed-med programs found all over the world. Health sci, with its high entrance average and extremely tough supplementary applications can be pretty much assured to be getting good potential doctor candidates. To cater specifically to med school they remove all the 'padding' like courses that mean nothing to med school and allow you to focus on a few specific courses thereby achieving high marks to get into med school.

As for 'lets go to york and get a high average'...the most joke program in university will still be at least twice as much work as highscool. So getting a near perfect average is extremely difficult in every program. To give you an idea 70ish undergrads at mac (of over 20 thousand) achieved a 4.0 GPA last year. And to get into med school you need a very good average and stellar extra-circulars.

Finally a 93, while good, is below the cutoff for health sci (I think its 95 but could be wrong). 90% in highschool is the new 82-85% (at most) due to extreme mark inflation over the last few years.

Originally Posted by Silver

health sci is competitive because it is one of the easiest undergrads in canada and allows you to pretty much always get a high gpa with the program is set up (no midterms/finals/labs). i wouldnt call it the best science program. undergrad degree doesnt matter at though for your goal, but you prob would do better in courses you enjoy (tough to enjoy all courses though). some schools are easier than others probably but i believe all schools give you a chance to get a high gpa so if youre really focused, you can do well in most places. some schools/courses obviously require more effort though. also, with med rad, it is tough do prereqs for professional schools because there isnt much elective space. med rad at mac is a solid program but research it more before making decisions because lots of my med rad friends in 1st year wanted med school or something but realized they couldnt fulfill prereqs so they didnt even bother and just went with their nice job they got from the medrad degree.

Thank you very much. yea of course its hard to enjoy all courses and to be honest I dont really hate anything specifically, so i guess i have my choices open. How about Life science though? If i dont get into Health, can Life science be a good alternative or it's considered as a hard program? thank you again

Health sci or anywhere to get high marks

Originally Posted by qwerty91

Health sci is macs unofficial answer to the need in Ontario for a "premed" program like the 6 year premed-med programs found all over the world. Health sci, with its high entrance average and extremely tough supplementary applications can be pretty much assured to be getting good potential doctor candidates. To cater specifically to med school they remove all the 'padding' like courses that mean nothing to med school and allow you to focus on a few specific courses thereby achieving high marks to get into med school.

As for 'lets go to york and get a high average'...the most joke program in university will still be at least twice as much work as highscool. So getting a near perfect average is extremely difficult in every program. To give you an idea 70ish undergrads at mac (of over 20 thousand) achieved a 4.0 GPA last year. And to get into med school you need a very good average and stellar extra-circulars.

Finally a 93, while good, is below the cutoff for health sci (I think its 95 but could be wrong). 90% in highschool is the new 82-85% (at most) due to extreme mark inflation over the last few years.

yeah, thats true. i know my average might not be enough for health science, thats why I'm also thinking about Life science. how is that program?

Originally Posted by fograd

yeah, thats true. i know my average might not be enough for health science, thats why I'm also thinking about Life science. how is that program?

Life sci is an excellent program and many students go to med school from it. It is however considered much more difficult. Health Sci does have access to the real Anatomy+Physiology course however which is pretty much a one of a kind undergrad program.

Originally Posted by fograd

Thank you very much. yea of course its hard to enjoy all courses and to be honest I dont really hate anything specifically, so i guess i have my choices open. How about Life science though? If i dont get into Health, can Life science be a good alternative or it's considered as a hard program? thank you again

life sci first year is just general science so keep that in mind (most science programs are just general 1st year) lots of midterms and labs so you really need to keep up and lots of life scis mess up first year (below 3.7 gpa) because they underestimate the number of midterms and finals and how close they sometimes end up being. obviously you can get close to 4.0 gpa in life sci too though. and it opens up the option for many 2nd year science programs such as bio, chembio, biochem, etc which can cater to your interests. only do the general science thing if you enjoy science because a lot of high school students do well and come to university and just end up with a mediocre first year gpa because of bad work habits. if you get into health sci, go into it for sure since its like a free ticket to professional schools. you wont be stressed with any midterms or having to write 5 exams in a few days. exams are deadly for many 1st years and tough to get high high marks on because students just try to cram it in. the cramming can get you solid Bs but for med you need to aim for 4.0 pretty much.

Originally Posted by fograd

Hey everyone
I'm pretty sure the question I'm about to ask is one of the most typical questions ever, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find an specific answer to this question, plus I wanted to ask it from MAC students as well.
My situation:
Grd. 12
My top 6 average is almost 93
Applied to MAC, Western, UofT, York, and Ottawa.
My goal is to get into medical/dentistry school so I'm trying to find the program that fits me and my goal the best. As far as I know, MAC's Health science is one of the best programs in all science programs. but the question is: why is it so competitive?
As I've heard, medical schools just care about your GPA and the MCAT score (extracurricular activities and references are important as well.) In this situation, why dont people try to get into an easy programs at York to get a High GPA and then go to Ottawa for med school which doesnt need MCAT? I'm confused...
(My choice in the order is MAC Health science - MAC Life science - MAC Medical Radiation - York Kin - York Life science)

Healthsci is definitely not one of the best SCIENCE programs. Do not make that mistake. They have very little focus on the hard sciences. At the graduate level, biochemistry is considered under the faculty of health science, so that certainly helps to confuse people, but at the undergraduate level, biochemistry is in the faculty of science. The healthsci people insist that they are not a premed program, and I can see why they would say that, but they are certainly a health-oriented program and the majority of their graduates do go to med school. However, I should also mention that not all of their graduates get IN to med school - it's not guaranteed.

Forget about the reputation or "prestige" of the program and learn about what it actually entails. LOTS of group work, courses you may not even be interested in, etc. The reason I never applied to it is because my grade 12 bio teacher told us "You know the group activities that I have you guys do that you all despise? That's the program." He was absolutely right, and I am so glad I didn't go that route, because I would have been miserable. That has nothing to do with the difficulty (or lack thereof) or even the content, it's simply how the program is structured.

Look at the programs you can go into in upper years from life sci and see if they interest you. Look at the upper year health sci and general science courses and see if they interest you. I honestly think health sci is so competitive because of the prestige, and that many of the people applying don't really understand what the program is about.

Originally Posted by qwerty91

Finally a 93, while good, is below the cutoff for health sci (I think its 95 but could be wrong). 90% in highschool is the new 82-85% (at most) due to extreme mark inflation over the last few years.

Health Sci's cutoff is 90%. Everyone is considered equal when they're above 90% and then it's the best supp app score that gets in (ie someone with a 90% average and an excellent supp app will get in over someone with a 100% average and an average supp app).

I won't argue over whether Health Sci is an easy program or if it's the best program but it does give you unique opportunities such as the cadaver lab, simulated patient interviews, travelling, clinical placements, and clinical/wet lab work. You can engage in none, some, or all of these activities since these are mostly optional courses, so the program is very flexible to your interests.

People are right in saying that it isn't the hardcore basic science program you'd expect since there are some mandatory social science oriented courses (eg epidemiology, health policy, etc).

The program is definitely not for everyone since some people really hate to work in groups. The program acknowledges it and some courses include a group process component where you try to improve your group work skills. Personally I came out of high school dreading the group work but over the past few years I've grown to really like it. I personally group discussion and literature research is a better way to learn than attending lecture and doing midterms.

Besides Health Sci, most university science programs are basically the same in terms of course requirements and difficulty so just pick one where a lot of your friends are going and is research/medically focused (Mac, Queens, U of T, Western).

Hi Mehrad! Thanks for joining MacInsiders and engaging with our community.

I would suggest coming to McMaster for a campus tour, get a feel for the campus and the program. Talk with alumni and upper year students already in your program you're interested in. Talk with the professors/staff. etc

tc, in the end just do your best to get into health sci. youre guaranteed a high gpa in it and wont have to deal with any stress from finals and midterms. tests are what bring marks down while assignments and projects always bring em up so if you get into health sci, youre guaranteed a very high gpa.

Word of advice if you come to university close minded with one goal in mind you might miss out on a lot of opportunities.

Originally Posted by fograd

Hey everyone
I'm pretty sure the question I'm about to ask is one of the most typical questions ever, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find an specific answer to this question, plus I wanted to ask it from MAC students as well.
My situation:
Grd. 12
My top 6 average is almost 93
Applied to MAC, Western, UofT, York, and Ottawa.
My goal is to get into medical/dentistry school so I'm trying to find the program that fits me and my goal the best. As far as I know, MAC's Health science is one of the best programs in all science programs. but the question is: why is it so competitive?
As I've heard, medical schools just care about your GPA and the MCAT score (extracurricular activities and references are important as well.) In this situation, why dont people try to get into an easy programs at York to get a High GPA and then go to Ottawa for med school which doesnt need MCAT? I'm confused...
(My choice in the order is MAC Health science - MAC Life science - MAC Medical Radiation - York Kin - York Life science)

Unfortunately a lot of people hear rumours that health sci is easy and gets you into medical school so many apply, though this is not true. As long as you have a 90 average, they will consider you, but with thousands of applicants for about 200 spots, many brilliant people do get rejected.

Health scis have a unique pedagogical model for their education which is different from some other programs. This model is backed up by research in the field of education, so it is not hocus-pocus. While they do have less tests and exams, one should not discriminate based on quantity; the tests given in health sci are not your standard cram+regurgitate tests you probably did in high school, and the material is a lot more complex and compels you to think a lot harder.

While they have less tests and exams (though they don't actually have that much less) they have a HUGE amount of group work in projects and group essays, and must spend quite a lot of time, working together as a group. Working together as a group proficiently is actually a lot harder than you think.

This program is not a easy pass into medical school. It is quite rigorous and demanding making you think in a different way to make you a better thinker and improve your life skills like collaboration. People DO fail courses in health sci, and they don't all get A's in all their courses.

You seem to think going to an "easy program" will help you. Do not think this way. Whether it is health sci or life sci or science at any university, it is still going to be hard and you will work your ass off trying to get good marks.

Health scis have to work hard. Life scis have to work hard. Everyone in university works hard. To compare different programs based on the work they do, is like comparing apples and oranges. If you are only concerned with finding as easy way out, it will be hard to accomplish something amazing in your life.

Health scis have a unique pedagogical model for their education which is different from some other programs. This model is backed up by research in the field of education, so it is not hocus-pocus. While they do have less tests and exams, one should not discriminate based on quantity; the tests given in health sci are not your standard cram+regurgitate tests you probably did in high school, and the material is a lot more complex and compels you to think a lot harder.

no ones saying you dont learn in health sci. and there is a difference in writing group midterms and midterms given to you in advance.

While they have less tests and exams (though they don't actually have that much less) they have a HUGE amount of group work in projects and group essays, and must spend quite a lot of time, working together as a group. Working together as a group proficiently is actually a lot harder than you think.

wtf? writing 1-3 exams during the exam period as opposed to 5-6 exams is a lot less. it isnt hard to ace all exams when you have 2-3. and group work/assignments are pretty much always mark boosters in university while tests bring marks down.

This program is not a easy pass into medical school. It is quite rigorous and demanding making you think in a different way to make you a better thinker and improve your life skills like collaboration. People DO fail courses in health sci, and they don't all get A's in all their courses.

looking at the stats alone and seeing that like 80% of health scis get into professional school tells me it must be one of the easiest ways to get into these professional programz. and yes, health sci courses may make you think differently but group work is pretty much always a gpa booster

You seem to think going to an "easy program" will help you. Do not think this way. Whether it is health sci or life sci or science at any university, it is still going to be hard and you will work your ass off trying to get good marks.

theres nothing wrong with taking easy courses to get into med school especially with how competitive it is in ontario. id say most health and life scis at mac do their best to take relatively easy courses to attain the high gpa and that is fine. people do this everywhere.

Health scis have to work hard. Life scis have to work hard. Everyone in university works hard. To compare different programs based on the work they do, is like comparing apples and oranges. If you are only concerned with finding as easy way out, it will be hard to accomplish something amazing in your life.

remember, there is a difference between group project hard work and writing 5 exams in 10 days hard work.

tc, get into health sci and youre guaranteed high gpa. look at the stats if you dont believe me. i want whats best for everyone wishin to do med school and that is to attain the highest gpa possible which you have the best chance of doin in hsci.