People r way 2 sensitive nowadays, there r worse things in the world then someone wishing u a merry christmas or decorations being up and your not Christian. I'm not Jewish but if someone said Happy Hanukah because they were I'd just say thanks u 2 and not think twice about it.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

Case in point: Xmas. When you say this, you're saying "I'm going to celebrate your holiday but will remove the whole point of the holiday from the word and then rub it in your face." It goes beyond being 'politically correct' where you use a 'neutral word' since you're actually going as far as to bastardize a religious word in the process.

It's like calling Chanukah "Happy Fun Candle Time," or Kwanzaa "Black Time" except if I ever said these things in a serious context (ie. not in an attempt to explain my point) I'd be labelled an anti-semite, or racist.

Xmas irritates me far more than "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays" because it's deliberate...though the attempt to remove any notion of Christmas, Chanukah etc. is pretty irritating too.

Hmm.. I don't particularly find Xmas to be offensive. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, X is Greek letter Chi, and it was used to spell Christ (actually, XP - from what I learned in class - Chi-Rho a Christian symbol) - so it's not actually removing the whole point of the holiday, I believe. It's simply an abbreviation. But then, we may all have different perspectives on the matter. And yes, I am Christian.

Originally Posted by aya017

Hmm.. I don't particularly find Xmas to be offensive. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, X is Greek letter Chi, and it was used to spell Christ (actually, XP - from what I learned in class - Chi-Rho a Christian symbol) - so it's not actually removing the whole point of the holiday, I believe. It's simply an abbreviation. But then, we may all have different perspectives on the matter. And yes, I am Christian.

OMG Windows XP is religion-biased lol

btw, decorate wherever you want, just don't form a kissing line under that arch

Originally Posted by aya017

Hmm.. I don't particularly find Xmas to be offensive. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, X is Greek letter Chi, and it was used to spell Christ (actually, XP - from what I learned in class - Chi-Rho a Christian symbol) - so it's not actually removing the whole point of the holiday, I believe. It's simply an abbreviation. But then, we may all have different perspectives on the matter. And yes, I am Christian.

I never knew that, thanks. Which course did you study that kind of stuff by the way?

However be that as it may, if you find me one person who actually knows that and uses the abbreviation, and I'll find you like 30 who use it and don't...'it's the thought that counts' when it comes to things like this unfortunately, it's about intentions.

(Not to mention, some religious people are against abbreviating the 'important things' like God, etc. so you're right, it really does come down to beliefs here)

I swear someone had it up there last year.

Let's try not to make this a discussion about religion. Religion discussions can only mean trouble and there can be a clash of beliefs. People have different opinions and beliefs about religion. As much as it would be awesome for McMaster to celebrate different religious holidays, I can see some of the problems that may arise as some people have already mentioned. It's also not realistic because I doubt they would celebrate every religious holiday.

I don't really have much to say about having a mistletoe under the arch. It's not important and I doubt the university would do it. There is the religion aspect of it and they just wouldn't bother with something so trivial. Plus, most people wouldn't even see it at they will be gone for the holidays and even if they do see it, they probably wouldn't give it much attention. That arch is so awesome though!

Originally Posted by Rossclot

When I see Christmas decorations up in some of the offices all I can think is "you could have been doing work instead of setting up decorations". Hopefully student volunteers offered to do it for the school, but who knows.

None of that shit should be up anywhere around campus. Holidays are personal issues, and the school shouldn't take sides by promoting any. It isnt an issue of oppressing Christianity, or discriminating against students who dont celebrate the holiday, it is more of an issue of "Why arent you doing your job?".

As individuals, do whatever you want. But as a representative of the university(faculty,st aff, ect), just do your job.

One thing that every place I've ever worked has in common is that come holiday time (and by holiday here, I mean anything that can be used as an excuse to decorate), they decorated as a morale thing. To come in to work close to halloween and see halloween decorations, or have a christmas tree around christmas time, or a simple "happy new year" sign the week before new years, makes people feel a little less crappy about having to get up before the sun does, just to go "crunch some numbers" for 8 hours and return home. It is possible to both decorate AND get your job done.

Originally Posted by Rossclot

When I see Christmas decorations up in some of the offices all I can think is "you could have been doing work instead of setting up decorations". Hopefully student volunteers offered to do it for the school, but who knows.

None of that shit should be up anywhere around campus. Holidays are personal issues, and the school shouldn't take sides by promoting any. It isnt an issue of oppressing Christianity, or discriminating against students who dont celebrate the holiday, it is more of an issue of "Why arent you doing your job?".

As individuals, do whatever you want. But as a representative of the university(faculty,st aff, ect), just do your job.

I work on campus and I was putting up decorations just last week and it felt great and I dont even celebrate Christmas. And I say Merry Christmas. Also there weren't any student volunteers present. You sound so bitter with the whole "Why aren't you doing your job" thing.
I think its important to decorate for all the students that don't get to go home till the 22 and for the staff that have to be there till Christmas Eve.

I'm all for a huge Christmas three by the fireplace in MUSC. It would look amazing!
Geez the next thing you know peope will be fined for putting up lights in front of their house:(

Originally Posted by Rossclot

None of that shit should be up anywhere around campus. Holidays are personal issues, and the school shouldn't take sides by promoting any. It isnt an issue of oppressing Christianity, or discriminating against students who dont celebrate the holiday, it is more of an issue of "Why arent you doing your job?".

I hate to bring up the notorious "Homecoming Sign thread" that kind of blew up on macinsiders a month or two back...but if that's your reasoning, then you should hate Mac 'wasting time' putting up signs to support anything.

In fact, by that reasoning you'd also dislike volunteer efforts since people aren't "doing their job" and are doing things to help improve morale (things like the Engineering Olympics, or the countless special events that occur).

Think about how many 'secular McMaster holidays' there are, and how much time is 'wasted' on those...then think about why people aren't allowed to spend their time expressing something they believe in...which is ultimately the most important thing in life. (I don't just mean religion, but it's included in there if a person believes in something)

Originally Posted by feonateresa

Yeah, but it's still inconsiderate because you assume they celebrate Christmas or Chanukah. It's just much easier to say Happy Holidays, because that INCLUDES everyone, and doesn't (unintentionally or intentionally) exclude. If someone came up to me and said Happy Kwanzaa just because I look like I belong to a certain ethnic group, I'd be like, "wtf are you talking about??"

The problem with Kwanzaa is that in ways it's 'apples and oranges.' While I can appreciate the importance, it's not based on religion or a higher power so if you assume someone celebrates Kwanzaa it can backfire into a 'racist' issue...whereas if you assume someone celebrates Christmas it 'backfires' into a completely different issue, one that, in my opinion, is more positive than racism. (And yes I realize you don't 'have to be black' to celebrate Kwanzaa but...statistically speaking...)

In other words, assuming someone celebrates Kwanzaa based on skin-colour can be 'inconsiderate' as you put...but assuming someone celebrates Christmas (which really, that's why we get time off in December even if people don't like the word Christmas) isn't as negative as people make it out to be.

But nonetheless...I admit it'd be really weird if say, I (being white) came up to you and said Happy Kwanzaa because that assumes something based on your skin colour...but only because the society we live in is so afraid of being 'racially correct.' (In particular, note that this is regardless of my intention)

But what if someone with said skin colour came up to you and said it because they are celebrating it, regardless of whether or not you are (again, Kwanzaa's not perfectly analogous to Christmas)?

And then...what if someone with said skin colour came up to me and said it? (which likely wouldn't happen because racism and reverse racism are prevalent...but let's pretend this truly was a world without borders for a moment).

Originally Posted by Mowicz

I never knew that, thanks. Which course did you study that kind of stuff by the way?

I actually learned it from my Grade 11 Religion teacher (Catholic HS, had to take it. It was a good course though. Best religion teacher ever.) - and I wiki-ed it just to make sure I wasn't making up things (and yeah Wiki isn't the best source, but it just confirmed what I learned from my teacher so yeah.) Greek letters are so interesting

religion card being played? come on..

If the school can barely do it's job in the first place, they shouldnt be wasting time with decorations when there is shit to be done.

lol. one of my high school teachers once said "Merry Christmas, Christians!"

cute idea...but really. It's just too cheezy!! I guess it would be cheezier kissing under the McMaster arch with the "All I want for Christmas is you" song playing in the background. I swear I will die if this every happens.

Originally Posted by Rossclot

If the school can barely do it's job in the first place, they shouldnt be wasting time with decorations when there is shit to be done.

it shouldn't really be the school that does this.. i mean they have to run a business... if anything they should have a club or the MSU deal with this stuff to make Mac more festive. The campus would look so pretty with lights here and there