Originally Posted by huzaifa47

... but that still is an immense risk that a small community(that little club called the SRA/BOD) is making for the rest of the student body.

That's what democracy is all about. We're elected to make the decisions. We're doing our best to deal with the student apathy problem (and I can tell you that a lot of people are putting a lot of effort into this). Quarters lost a siginificant amount of money two years ago, and now we're trying to fix it. Big problems need big solutions, and that's what we're providing... a solution that encompasses all problems perceived by students, including things like food quality, atmosphere, etc. You bash us for spending a lot of money, but nothing is free in this world and if you want a quality job done, you're going to pay for it.

because of simple facts: Voter turnouts

Voter turnouts are a problem beyond any single one of us, and it's NOT... I repeat NOT a reflection of the student body's opinion of the MSU, simply because the voter turnout of students in federal/provincial elections have been dismal as well. The problem is student apathy. If you know how to make the students care more, then let us know because it's a problem we're trying to deal with.

(the US here doesn't exactly include the entire student population since a HUGE number of them will never even go to 1280 for things other then food!).

Food. They're going there for food. If they're going there for food, they're still going there. One of the things that sucked about Quarters was food quite frankly, and that's something that is being worked on for the new estabilishment. Trust me, if the food is still crap when 1280 opens, please complain to your reps, or even me, and I'll be sure to let the appropriate people know!

Macinsiders was a good venue to clear accusations of "poisoning the workplace" and unprofessionalism that were oddly thrown by the former speaker on the MSU leadership.

Did the BOD clear things up apart from one miniscule need to know Post from the President and House leader each? NO

I went on and repeatedly asked constructive and simple questions in the Quarters thread, did anyone from the SRA or BOD answer? NO
Infact the SRA members went onto defend the BOD for what they have done instead of answering their constituents who were answering questions.

I can't speak for the President or the House Leader, but MacInsiders is no longer an MSU club, and therefore nobody in the MSU technically has any shred of responsbility to post here. Some of us do for various reasons, but like Mr. Tenenbaum said, if you have a problem with something in the MSU and want to speak to someone (whether they are BOD or SRA), there's email, phone, or you can set up an appointment and speak to them face-to-face. It's easy to complain and complain from anonymity of your computer, but in my experience, the most effective way of dealing with people is face-to-face. There's no guarantee or promise that anyone in the MSU is watching these threads, never mind posting.

I read a patronizing post by a SRA member from some other faculty to everyone complaining on Insiders to email my Caucus leader if I have questions(Since I happen to be among the tiny minority of students who will make the effort to type one up, I DID): NO replies for two emails sent both on facebook and at the msu email. I love how all the SRA members keep on insiders keep doing the whole "please contact us, we love to hear from you" but fail to realize that there are 39 SRA members and they are one of the minority who actually make an effort to come on Insiders and post regularly!

There's two issues here. First, if you're contacting your representatives and they aren't responding, let the House Leader know. It's his responsibility to make sure that Members are doing their job, and if he doesn't respond/do anything about it, either ask to meet him/them in person, or tell me and I'll do it for you. This is a serious accusation, and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

Second... there's 35 (not 39) SRA members, and like I said before, we are not mandated or otherwise required to use MacInsiders. It's each and every individual Member's choice whether or not we want to use it. Furthermore, it's not an MSU-run service, so it can't really be mandated that we use it.

The whole Information disemination system is a bust, the general MSU member doesn't trust the SRA; all he does is have a vague and distrustful view of how they spend money and as I have found out recently do so without properly answering questions properly about "our" money.

I beg to differ. The general MSU member doesn't know about the SRA, or what we do, or how the MSU works. THAT'S the problem. It's not a matter of trust, because quite frankly, the majority of the Assembly is doing a good job so far (it's still summer, so we'll see how it goes in September), and while there's been hitches in the Quarters/1280 issue, there's been more than enough opportunity to ask questions and get your opinion heard. Don't forget that our meetings are open and the meetings where these decisions were made were open. You or any other member could have come right out and asked your question to all of us.

If you guys want everyone to appreciate all the constructive services(student jobs, Student Health Services, Union Market and the clubs!) and overlook the faults and to trust you guys to overcome issues like Quarters there definitely needs to be much better communication by the MSU leadership. As things stand the students don't trust you nor do they want anything to do with the MSU if given a choice.

Again, it's not a matter of trust. Some people may not trust the MSU, but quite frankly, not everyone ever will. Generalizing the entire population to "not want anything to do with the MSU" is ridiculous and an overstatement. Again, this problem stems from apathy, rather than spite. Communication is a large plank in many Members' platforms (including mine) and while I can't speak for other indivicual members, myself and my Caucus have been doing a great job (if I do say so myself), since I've been having meetings with Administration, faculty members, members of my Faculty society, and communicating with consituents (of both my faculty and the general population). In short, we're working on communication, and if the House Leader follows through on his YearPlan, you'll see it improve tenfold.

I did recommend via email to both the VP Admin and President that MSU would be well served by creating a Vp Communications position like the one UWO has(I was highly impressed in my dealings with them) but I got a reply that the MSU does have full time staff who handle communications(I don't know who they are lol, I will ask soon). There is a major need for re-doing the BAD BAD PR that the MSU suffers from.

If you think that's the case, then bring it up with some evidence (for the BAD BAD PR) and outline a solution to the problem you see. You're welcome to present your ideas to the Assembly at one of our meeting if you want, and I'll endorse it so that it gets on the Agenda.

Quite frankly, there are full time staff who deal with communications, including our Network Administrator (website), our Business Manager, and a few other positions as well.

Before I got involved with MSU specifically (when I was an exec member of my Faculty Society for three years), I never had a bad feeling about what the MSU does for me, or its communication. I always felt that while there's been problems, and those are being worked on. Keep in mind that it wasn't all that long ago (if I'm not mistaken, 5-6 years ago) that the SRA was mostly all acclaimed every year, and they pretty much did nothing. That's pretty bad, so I'd have to say that while things still aren't nearly perfect, they're improved and still improving from what they used to be.

I have only been here a year and have witnessed two badly managed PR fiascos(the 2009 Budget/Quarters Loss and Speaker Resignation) and no action over issues that I as a Socsci am clearly being affected by: Sessionals being layed off and budgets being slashed with imputiny and being transferred over to the Sciences(Atleast that's what I infer with my little knowledge of anaylzing official budget documents, the MSU still hasn't taken up my public request of elaborating the budget document and its implications); who needs CASA and OUSA lobbying when the basic education at Mac locally is in shambles.

First, let me be clear that the Quarters loss happened as a result of management more than two years ago, the numbers come out after a year when different people are elected and running things, and like it has been stated multiple times, we can't make judgement on the new establishment until it starts running.
As for the Speaker's resignation, it was unfortunate, but if you look at the circumstances surrounding the event, you might understand how it happened. I don't believe that the BoD acted out of immorality, rather out of circumstance since we need 1280 finished before September. The SRA meets only twice in the summer, and getting an emergency meeting together (with quorum I might add) would prove to be challenging, since our members come from all over the country and many are in other places around the world. I admit that it was a mistake, and should have been handled better, but I don't believe it's a situation that's all bad.

Now, dealing with the University budget, layoffs, etc., we can advise and lobby the university, but we have little say in the University money. All of this happened at the end of the year, before the new SRA was trained, and before the Standing Committees had any remote chance of dealing with any business. We can certainly lobby in the coming months/year (and I believe that there are Members who are taking this issue to heart) but lobbying is the best we can do.

And when you mention "elaborating the budget document" do you mean the MSU budget, or the university budget? If you need help with the MSU budget, I could probably help you, but I haven't looked the university budget over in detail. It's a pretty huge document, better served by looking at the sections you need, rather than trying to digest the entire thing as a whole.

Originally Posted by tauntobr

If you think that's the case, then bring it up with some evidence (for the BAD BAD PR) and outline a solution to the problem you see. You're welcome to present your ideas to the Assembly at one of our meeting if you want, and I'll endorse it so that it gets on the Agenda.

Quite frankly, there are full time staff who deal with communications, including our Network Administrator (website), our Business Manager, and a few other positions as well.

Before I got involved with MSU specifically (when I was an exec member of my Faculty Society for three years), I never had a bad feeling about what the MSU does for me, or its communication. I always felt that while there's been problems, and those are being worked on. Keep in mind that it wasn't all that long ago (if I'm not mistaken, 5-6 years ago) that the SRA was mostly all acclaimed every year, and they pretty much did nothing. That's pretty bad, so I'd have to say that while things still aren't nearly perfect, they're improved and still improving from what they used to be.

I don't think the MSU having a VP Communications who is a student would be all that beneficial. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but... the MSU's full-time staff member who deals with communications isn't going to comment or sort things out publicly with student drama. Most of the time that people bash the MSU out of personal vendetta or financial purposes. Well, why would a full-time staff member deal with such high school drama they have more important things to do. The MSU website looks pretty good. As for Financial reasons such as this thread or students being frustrated with the Quarters renovations, statements should be made from the correct person ie VP Finance with help from the person in charge of communications. It does get slightly tricky and frustrating when you have a million SRA members contradicting each other and if they're from different faculties that's cool because they represent the students of THEIR own faculty. From what I have seen or heard said about the MSU most of it is rather petty and would be a waste of time to comment on. If the situation were of importance (i.e. money, strike, etc) I am pretty certain that there would be a comment. Also, when it comes to promotions, the MSU is really good. Everyone knows it's there but it takes time for people to explain what they do.

If you got to pick and choose, they wouldn't get any money out of us for crap like the quarters reno, though.

And then what would we have to be angry about?

Originally Posted by micadjems

If you got to pick and choose, they wouldn't get any money out of us for crap like the quarters reno, though.

And then what would we have to be angry about?

But your student fees from this year aren't going to Quarters/1280. They are going to be paying for the running of all services, as normal.

Most of the money used to pay for Quarters/1280 is from a business grant...which has nothing to do with your student fees.

I'm sure some of the fees are going to be mandatory like EFRT and all that other crap. At the same time, some fees should not be mandatory in my opinion. Either way I could care-less about how the MSU and SRA conduct matters because for all I know from watching them, they are a bunch of amateurs who don't really know what they are doing, BUT they are trying their best and that's all that matters...

At the end of the day most of them are on SRA or MSU for either the money, the authority, and that little bit of experience... It's not like many of them can make a career out of it or do anything worthwhile. The bigger issue is that some of the SRA and MSU kids need to grow balls and tackle real issues. One of the main reasons quarters lost a lot of money was because the bouncers were pocketing all of it. How about some of you man-up and handle that issue, which is more important than renovating or sitting behind the lap-top and arguing over funds.

Originally Posted by tio123

The bigger issue is that some of the SRA and MSU kids need to grow balls and tackle real issues. One of the main reasons quarters lost a lot of money was because the bouncers were pocketing all of it. How about some of you man-up and handle that issue, which is more important than renovating or sitting behind the lap-top and arguing over funds.

So you're inferring in the course of a year Quarters' bouncers (which would equate staff of less than 20) stole $375 000 in terms of stock and cash?

Do you want to provide some proof to these claims? Because I'm thinking they're incredibly unsubstantiated. Furthermore its proves you don't really know how the business lost the money it did two years ago, or how a business can end up in the red, period.

I resent what is being said about SRA members, if you have a problem with some of the members, then talk to them or confront them.
And if you have that big a problem with it, then man up and run and try to change things instead of sitting at a computer and arguing over Macinsiders.

Originally Posted by tio123

Your acting like you or the MSU is powerful or something.

I think if you actually made the effort to get involved and learn about how things run, you'd be surprised at just how powerful and influential the MSU really is.

Originally Posted by tauntobr

That's what democracy is all about. We're elected to make the decisions. We're doing our best to deal with the student apathy problem (and I can tell you that a lot of people are putting a lot of effort into this). Quarters lost a siginificant amount of money two years ago, and now we're trying to fix it. Big problems need big solutions, and that's what we're providing... a solution that encompasses all problems perceived by students, including things like food quality, atmosphere, etc. You bash us for spending a lot of money, but nothing is free in this world and if you want a quality job done, you're going to pay for it.

I never directly bashed you for spending that amount of money, I understand the money is required for having a quality bar. But the amount of money being spent here is far to excessive, in the corporate world anything above $100,000 requires excessive amount of research with the aim being to determine how feasible the end result would be as far as making profits is concerned(In this case forget profits, breaking even is our main issue!). The MSU is still working on the assumption that by spending all this money you will succesfully turn around everything. It is still an assumption. But even then in the other thread I linked you, even if you guys spent the money I suppose it was for the greater good. Fine. BUT I asked for the research report presented by the BOD to the SRA on the June 13th session to be released in public, in other words I suppose all of us have a right to know why is it that 375k was allocated to IRA MacDonald for the project Right? It still is missing, I'm not 100% sure how tenders work but to get that project I have a feeling IRA must have made a convincing Ppoint or PDF argument/dossier right? That is what I meant by lack of information from MSU that alienates alot of people.

"Voter turnouts are a problem beyond any single one of us, and it's NOT... I repeat NOT a reflection of the student body's opinion of the MSU, simply because the voter turnout of students in federal/provincial elections have been dismal as well. The problem is student apathy. If you know how to make the students care more, then let us know because it's a problem we're trying to deal with."

Once again that is your assumption, how can you back it up? Personal Interviews are a valid research method in Social Sciences, and If you count everyday conversation and the talks I had with people for my FYC election as "interviews" it is quite clear that their answers support my thesis. Even if it is apathy, one of the ways to deal with apathy is to engage the students, seek them out, an apathetic person never seeks out the MSU. He just forms a negative cynical opinion of them and lives out the rest of his student life at Mac with the belief that $700 of his money goes every year to an organization he doesn't trust. I did point all that out in the "apathy" thread by Matt.

"Food. They're going there for food. If they're going there for food, they're still going there. One of the things that sucked about Quarters was food quite frankly, and that's something that is being worked on for the new estabilishment. Trust me, if the food is still crap when 1280 opens, please complain to your reps, or even me, and I'll be sure to let the appropriate people know!"

I will! But they really need to change the whole kitchen setup in order to draw back the chunk of student body who never goes to club nights, Just about everyone I know hates Quarters food! I personally had it twice and it was one of the worst I had ever eaten! Quote: "The Cheese tastes like rubber" sums it up. Rohan Nair had a few decent ideas I recall, they need to get talented full time staff not random student jobs(If what he mentioned is in fact how Quarters was operated.). I am all for student jobs but if doing so is causing the overall failiure of the buisness model then we have to sacrifice them for outsiders! Infact if they get kickass food and make some profit then that money could be re-allocated to create more jobs in other sectors: Win-Win!

I can't speak for the President or the House Leader, but MacInsiders is no longer an MSU club, and therefore nobody in the MSU technically has any shred of responsbility to post here. Some of us do for various reasons, but like Mr. Tenenbaum said, if you have a problem with something in the MSU and want to speak to someone (whether they are BOD or SRA), there's email, phone, or you can set up an appointment and speak to them face-to-face. It's easy to complain and complain from anonymity of your computer, but in my experience, the most effective way of dealing with people is face-to-face. There's no guarantee or promise that anyone in the MSU is watching these threads, never mind posting.

The reason I mentioned them not answering my queries is that there were a number of SRA members who posted in the thread previously, and were posting in other threads or were online(via the online users bar on the right side) on or after I posted. I have seen three BOD members online on various occasions and infact the VP Finance himself was a very active online activists regarding transperancy and communication for the SRA both on facebook and Insiders and during Presidentials. So its not entirely unfair to say that they have read what I wrote. And the fact that Insiders is no longer a MSU club is no excuse to not reply, if all of you guys are so concerned with solving apathy then you should actually make efforts to gauge and engage student opinion no matter where it is!

I only recall Matt Wright as an SRA member who makes efforts on Insiders to get people involved in the process.


But you really aren't getting my point here! The reason I pepper sprayed the other thread with question is for John Does and Mary Janes out there who are reading Insiders. I'm not some coward who just sits behind his computer viewing everything out there with "critical" eyes, all of my questions were for the public not for myself. I want to get them involved and engaged, I personally want to solve the bad PR the MSU suffers from, I want voter turnouts to rival St Francis Xavier or St Mary's (50-60%). That is the reason why I risk antagonizing all you guys and getting all this heat; just so you guys pull your pants up and provide more details to us. It doesn't matter where you do it, just do it! I do actually visit the MSU office a few times a month for a couple of projects, I could have easily gotten information there. But the reason I asked for it on a public forum was so that it serves a much larger population!

There's two issues here. First, if you're contacting your representatives and they aren't responding, let the House Leader know. It's his responsibility to make sure that Members are doing their job, and if he doesn't respond/do anything about it, either ask to meet him/them in person, or tell me and I'll do it for you. This is a serious accusation, and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

To be fair, I KNEW who would or wouldn't respond to my requests. If you recall I even contacted you regarding my FYC stuff and got prompt and proper responses, even at that time I accurately predicted who from my and to a small extent other faculties would respond and who wouldn't

I was pretty serious about the two types of SRA members, you and a number of other people who post on insiders happen to be from the former category; I only wish others shared your enthusiasm. But I really don't want to go through the process of confronting people, it is upto them to respond or not

I beg to differ. The general MSU member doesn't know about the SRA, or what we do, or how the MSU works. THAT'S the problem. It's not a matter of trust, because quite frankly, the majority of the Assembly is doing a good job so far (it's still summer, so we'll see how it goes in September), and while there's been hitches in the Quarters/1280 issue, there's been more than enough opportunity to ask questions and get your opinion heard. Don't forget that our meetings are open and the meetings where these decisions were made were open. You or any other member could have come right out and asked your question to all of us.

Once again, I did comment somewhere else that the SRA this year is doing a much much better job(atleast some of them are) then the last years SRA. But there still is ALOT of room for improvement, nothing is perfect! The information simply isn't detailed enough and the whole need to know basis doesn't really give any oppurtunity for anyone to ask questions or get involved in discussion!

Again, it's not a matter of trust. Some people may not trust the MSU, but quite frankly, not everyone ever will. Generalizing the entire population to "not want anything to do with the MSU" is ridiculous and an overstatement. Again, this problem stems from apathy, rather than spite. Communication is a large plank in many Members' platforms (including mine) and while I can't speak for other indivicual members, myself and my Caucus have been doing a great job (if I do say so myself), since I've been having meetings with Administration, faculty members, members of my Faculty society, and communicating with consituents (of both my faculty and the general population). In short, we're working on communication, and if the House Leader follows through on his YearPlan, you'll see it improve tenfold.

Well it depends, you are from Science and I am from Arts. In this other thread a science student was surprised that the socscis have issues with sessionals and budget cuts and cancelled classes, according to his viewpoint things are pretty good for him at Mac! I interact mostly with Socsci/hummers and they don't share the same positive outlook! It probably is an overstatement to paint the entire student body with the same point but I haven't met a single person(other then those involved with the MSU) in Social Sciences who is 100% happy with how the MSU or Admin work. Heck some even confuse the Quarters project as something by the Admin! Thats why I feel additional and detailed information is imperative for improving our image. They need to know what we do and more importantly WHY WE DO IT.


The reason I asked for a Vp Communications was that, if we have something like that then there will be no excuse for lack of information or details regarding MSU buisness. The VP could sit all day and write 2000 word posts regarding issues like the Quarters and Speaker resignation issue. Give the BODs side of the argument, so that we won't have as Nicole mentioned SRA members on Insiders giving partial and more importantly contradictory information.

The VP would be one central person who goes to BOD members and sits down with a pen/paper and notes down everything regarding issues and posts it up on Insiders(6000+ MSU members isn't a small number!) or the MSU website. It would be like a one man online newspaper of sorts if you get what I'm trying to say! Sure we have the Network admin and Buisness manager, but their job isn't "communications", it is just one of their many responsibilities. For example there are labour negotiations going on, I have had to ask on Insiders and hear about updates(I believe it was you who did so) from random people; I should be infact reading a newspaper size eyewitness article from the VP Communications!


By the Budget I meant the McMaster budget, since advocacy and representation is one of the pillars of the MSU I believe the implications of the budget to the everyday student is information that should be made public. The Unversity from the general consensus I've heard wouldn't obviously want to elaborate on their descisions, therefore the MSU leaders have an indirect responsibility to disect the budget and let their constituents know! Atleast that's just how I think it should be!




Anyways, I suppose I am coming of here as being one of those serial MSU critics; my post was entirely constructive criticism that hopefully improves the MSU on the whole. Its a bit different from direct criticism, I do hope you notice the difference!

Cheers!

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

The reason I asked for a Vp Communications was that, if we have something like that then there will be no excuse for lack of information or details regarding MSU buisness. The VP could sit all day and write 2000 word posts regarding issues like the Quarters and Speaker resignation issue. Give the BODs side of the argument, so that we won't have as Nicole mentioned SRA members on Insiders giving partial and more importantly contradictory information.

The VP would be one central person who goes to BOD members and sits down with a pen/paper and notes down everything regarding issues and posts it up on Insiders(6000+ MSU members isn't a small number!) or the MSU website. It would be like a one man online newspaper of sorts if you get what I'm trying to say! Sure we have the Network admin and Buisness manager, but their job isn't "communications", it is just one of their many responsibilities. For example there are labour negotiations going on, I have had to ask on Insiders and hear about updates(I believe it was you who did so) from random people; I should be infact reading a newspaper size eyewitness article from the VP Communications!

Cheers!

I think you took my statement the wrong way. It's not necessarily bad if SRA members contradict each other. For example,

if two science SRA members contradict each other that's bad. However, if a Humanities and Science contradict each other that's not bad because they're representing different pools of students.

Also, students keep complaining about the cost of the MSU fees and if you add a new VP... well ... the cost will increase even more.

The MSU and IRC are obviously really different. There are numerous reasons why the IRC has a VP Communications and it really is a vital position for the council. Nevertheless, I don't think a VP Communications is needed in the MSU. The IRC doesn't have full-time staff to maintain history and having another VP is a great way to ensure that no bit of history is missing for the future years. Also, yeah, I write articles and such but it's not necessary that the MSU does the same. The MSU has their own paper. If it's a good paper it should supply unbiased information about what's going on within the MSU.

I think it's hard to have one unified voice when you're representing THOUSANDSSS of students. I don't recall the exact number of undergrads.

Seems to be a lot of drama on the forms these days....


I just have a hopefully easy question, for anyone knowledgeable in the differences between the MSU and MAPS. I emailed the MAPS folks about, but have yet to hear back:

MAPS is for people taking <18 units per year, and the MSU is for those with 18+ units. I'm a mature student, taking 18 units, and apparently am part of MAPS. Can someone explain this for me? Is this just because I'm a mature student, or is there some error, or am I just totally confused and don't know what I'm talking about?

Originally Posted by reeves

Seems to be a lot of drama on the forms these days....


I just have a hopefully easy question, for anyone knowledgeable in the differences between the MSU and MAPS. I emailed the MAPS folks about, but have yet to hear back:

MAPS is for people taking <18 units per year, and the MSU is for those with 18+ units. I'm a mature student, taking 18 units, and apparently am part of MAPS. Can someone explain this for me? Is this just because I'm a mature student, or is there some error, or am I just totally confused and don't know what I'm talking about?

Apparently, I'm under MAPS right now because I'm in summer school. However, in September I'll be under the MSU again. Or do you mean like in September you're considered a part-time student?

Originally Posted by ferreinm

Apparently, I'm under MAPS right now because I'm in summer school. However, in September I'll be under the MSU again. Or do you mean like in September you're considered a part-time student?

Yeah...sorry, that wasn't very clear lol. When School starts, as a mature student with 18 units, do I become a member of MAPS, or MSU? The unit requirements are throwing me off.

Originally Posted by reeves

Seems to be a lot of drama on the forms these days....


I just have a hopefully easy question, for anyone knowledgeable in the differences between the MSU and MAPS. I emailed the MAPS folks about, but have yet to hear back:

MAPS is for people taking <18 units per year, and the MSU is for those with 18+ units. I'm a mature student, taking 18 units, and apparently am part of MAPS. Can someone explain this for me? Is this just because I'm a mature student, or is there some error, or am I just totally confused and don't know what I'm talking about?

If you are taking 18 units, you're an MSU member. You are, however, considered a part-time student by the university, which divided full-time from part-time at 24 units. You might be confusing the university definition with the MSU definition.

If not, and you are actually being contacted by MAPS as an incoming member or whatever, then there's an error, and I would contact them and/or the MSU to see about fixing it.

Originally Posted by tauntobr

If you are taking 18 units, you're an MSU member. You are, however, considered a part-time student by the university, which divided full-time from part-time at 24 units. You might be confusing the university definition with the MSU definition.

If not, and you are actually being contacted by MAPS as an incoming member or whatever, then there's an error, and I would contact them and/or the MSU to see about fixing it.

I already emailed MAPS about it. Do you by chance have the email for MSU, so I can cover both bases?