Read between the lines.

Young campaign staffer let go. Conservatives are going to blame him for the whole phone scandal that's coming out now. The article even states, there is no "public evidence" that says this Michael Sona guy did it. He just "offered his resignation".

Here's what the media DOESN'T think about:
The call center costs money. This kid is 23 years old, and had the robocall company place hundreds of thousands of phone calls. How did this kid pay for it? His personal savings? No way. What bonus would that have got him? There's no motivation for this kid to go behind everyone's back, paying thousands of his own dollars when that's probably more than he was paid for the entire campaign period. He got a bonus somewhere for getting the job done, as sleazy as it may be.

No way do I believe he acted alone. He was paid back, and someone else saw an invoice for what the robocalling cost him. Only the campaign team would know. And then that's Conservative money after that.

Chalk that up for another sneaky lie by the Conservatives that will get brushed under the table soon enough, because "remember the Liberals and their Sponsorship Scandal that one time nearly a decade ago!?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...h-staffer.html

i would take the blame for that much money in a heartbeat

Fact: All politicians are liars, regardless of their political affiliation.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Here's what the media DOESN'T think about:
The call center costs money. This kid is 23 years old, and had the robocall company place hundreds of thousands of phone calls. How did this kid pay for it? His personal savings? No way. What bonus would that have got him? There's no motivation for this kid to go behind everyone's back, paying thousands of his own dollars when that's probably more than he was paid for the entire campaign period. He got a bonus somewhere for getting the job done, as sleazy as it may be.

No way do I believe he acted alone. He was paid back, and someone else saw an invoice for what the robocalling cost him. Only the campaign team would know. And then that's Conservative money after that.

Chalk that up for another sneaky lie by the Conservatives that will get brushed under the table soon enough, because "remember the Liberals and their Sponsorship Scandal that one time nearly a decade ago!?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...h-staffer.html

You based all this off the stupid assumption that he'd have to pay out of his own pocket. Call centre would already be hired by the party, a single staffer could have changed the outgoing message.

You're basing that off of nothing. I'm not assuming anything. Go read about it: Each staffer paid out of their own pocket, then filed the invoice after.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/insi...ient-list.html

You also clearly don't understand how this scheme went down. The message was placed as an entirely separate purchase. It's not like the Conservatives have 1 account that they just change the recording for, when they want to advertise for a different MP. Each MP pays for this service on their own campaign and files invoices afterwards, and those invoices are looked at by the people in charge of campaign and party finances. Hence, someone else knew about it, unless we want to admit that there was an even larger underlying scandal where money and campaign finances are being improperly labelled.

What am I basing that off of? Every single news article that has been written on this scandal, and the RCMP reports.

#fail

Originally Posted by mike_302

You're basing that off of nothing. I'm not assuming anything. Go read about it: Each staffer paid out of their own pocket, then filed the invoice after.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/insi...ient-list.html

You also clearly don't understand how this scheme went down. The message was placed as an entirely separate purchase. It's not like the Conservatives have 1 account that they just change the recording for, when they want to advertise for a different MP. Each MP pays for this service on their own campaign and files invoices afterwards, and those invoices are looked at by the people in charge of campaign and party finances. Hence, someone else knew about it, unless we want to admit that there was an even larger underlying scandal where money and campaign finances are being improperly labelled.

What am I basing that off of? Every single news article that has been written on this scandal, and the RCMP reports.

#fail

That's just a list of MPs whose campaigns used the call centre. A single person on one of those staffs could have changed the call message. Don't use hashtags where it doesn't mean anything.

You're missing the point entirely, aren't you? There is an RCMP and a media investigation that has already determined that a purchase was made through a disposable cell phone that was purchased with cash, and had a number from Quebec. The person did not change any message, because they then proceeded to provide a NEW calling list of LIBERAL REGISTERED VOTERS. That is, known-Liberal voters (paying Liberal party members). They then provided payment through a credit card that they thought would stay anonymous. But the RCMP have the power of the subpoena, and apparently now have a name that has not been made public.

No one on any staff changed an existing phone campaign message. A new one was setup, with a new target audience. Don't believe me? Read the investigative reports by the original media outlet that dug this up, or read the RCMP reports which have been released.

Originally Posted by mike_302

You're missing the point entirely, aren't you? There is an RCMP and a media investigation that has already determined that a purchase was made through a disposable cell phone that was purchased with cash, and had a number from Quebec. The person did not change any message, because they then proceeded to provide a NEW calling list of LIBERAL REGISTERED VOTERS. That is, known-Liberal voters (paying Liberal party members). They then provided payment through a credit card that they thought would stay anonymous. But the RCMP have the power of the subpoena, and apparently now have a name that has not been made public.

No one on any staff changed an existing phone campaign message. A new one was setup, with a new target audience. Don't believe me? Read the investigative reports by the original media outlet that dug this up, or read the RCMP reports which have been released.

Nope, you're missing the point. You used some bad logic to try and say he couldn't have acted alone. He could have.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Read between the lines.

Young campaign staffer let go. Conservatives are going to blame him for the whole phone scandal that's coming out now. The article even states, there is no "public evidence" that says this Michael Sona guy did it. He just "offered his resignation".

Here's what the media DOESN'T think about:
The call center costs money. This kid is 23 years old, and had the robocall company place hundreds of thousands of phone calls. How did this kid pay for it? His personal savings? No way. What bonus would that have got him? There's no motivation for this kid to go behind everyone's back, paying thousands of his own dollars when that's probably more than he was paid for the entire campaign period. He got a bonus somewhere for getting the job done, as sleazy as it may be.

No way do I believe he acted alone. He was paid back, and someone else saw an invoice for what the robocalling cost him. Only the campaign team would know. And then that's Conservative money after that.

Chalk that up for another sneaky lie by the Conservatives that will get brushed under the table soon enough, because "remember the Liberals and their Sponsorship Scandal that one time nearly a decade ago!?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...h-staffer.html

Maybe I should start multiple threads on how McGuinty and his liberals are ruining ontario, but then there would be so many that it would take up all the space on the "recent" heading. Honestly, though, this is one person doing the job, not the whole party. you're trying to find fault where there is none. If there was more people involved, then absolutely, they should be charged under the law, but to accuse the whole where there is no evidence is wrong.

How can you honestly believe this kid paid several thousand dollars without anyone in the Conservative party knowing!? Actually!? You think he went and "did a good deed" and paid for it all himself? There's no flawed logic in my conclusion that he didn't act alone: The investigation proves that someone got a disposable phone, tried to hide their identity, then placed a new order for these phone calls. Ready to be shut down?

You see the list of RackNine purchases by the Conservative party? All from out west. Here's a statement from the company owner who knows the name of the account holder.
"He said he knows whose account was used for the calls, but could not reveal the owner, because of client confidentiality and concerns about interfering with the investigation. He said it was someone "down East" - meaning Ontario or Quebec." http://forums.canadianconten t.net/...ters-last.html

"The robocalls received in Guelph were recorded in female voices in both French and English" (Same link as above),
--- Proves someone else knew what was going on. You're just going to tell me it was some rando the lone individual hired. Bull----.

This wasn't one lone kid, or any other staffer that orchestrated this whole thing. There was money involved. on a campaign account in the end. Are you denying that? Who oversees that money? Did they just miss the invoice for several thousand dollars on a local MP campaign? Get real.

I'd love to talk Provincial Liberal. Let's make that thread! I'm not going to tell you I'm happy with them either. I wouldn't have done a lot of the spending they have. And it's unfortunate that the federal government is going to force a bunch more spending on them by putting more people in jails (a provincial cost). But if you want to talk about that, create another thread.

Originally Posted by mike_302

How can you honestly believe this kid paid several thousand dollars without anyone in the Conservative party knowing!? Actually!? You think he went and "did a good deed" and paid for it all himself? There's no flawed logic in my conclusion that he didn't act alone: The investigation proves that someone got a disposable phone, tried to hide their identity, then placed a new order for these phone calls. Ready to be shut down?

You see the list of RackNine purchases by the Conservative party? All from out west. Here's a statement from the company owner who knows the name of the account holder.
"He said he knows whose account was used for the calls, but could not reveal the owner, because of client confidentiality and concerns about interfering with the investigation. He said it was someone "down East" - meaning Ontario or Quebec." http://forums.canadianconten t.net/...ters-last.html

"The robocalls received in Guelph were recorded in female voices in both French and English" (Same link as above),
--- Proves someone else knew what was going on. You're just going to tell me it was some rando the lone individual hired. Bull----.

This wasn't one lone kid, or any other staffer that orchestrated this whole thing. There was money involved. on a campaign account in the end. Are you denying that? Who oversees that money? Did they just miss the invoice for several thousand dollars on a local MP campaign? Get real.

I'd love to talk Provincial Liberal. Let's make that thread! I'm not going to tell you I'm happy with them either. I wouldn't have done a lot of the spending they have. And it's unfortunate that the federal government is going to force a bunch more spending on them by putting more people in jails (a provincial cost). But if you want to talk about that, create another thread.

I don't care whether he actually did work alone or not. You overreached with your assumptions (based on the information originally presented) in your original post in order to sensationalize the story. Like how the subject of this thread refers to a "big bonus" given to Michael Sona when nowhere in any article is it mentioned. All your political posts are over-zealous and exaggerated. Stick to the facts.

How's this for facts: My VERY FIRST SENTENCE said "read between the lines". If you don't like how I read the between the lines, that's fine. State that. Don't go making other bogus assumptions, stating "You based all this off the stupid assumption that he'd have to pay out of his own pocket.. a single staffer could have changed the outgoing message. You used some bad logic to try and say he couldn't have acted alone. He could have.", then saying "I don't care whether he actually did work alone or not.". Read all of those sentences together. You sound like a confused person, turning in circles, chasing his/her tail.

In the end, all your statements got disproved. The thing I'm most guilty of is assuming that other people read the news and are politically informed. I should've realized otherwise based solely on the fact that the Conservatives are the present day Dictators of Canada. Also note that no matter which newspaper website you go on (Conservative or Liberal favour), the up and down votes prove that the favour of INFORMED people are against the Conservative's actions and attitudes.

Read legitimate facts as they are provided to you, and think infinitely more critically than you are.

Nope. My point was that the logic in your initial post was bad. It still is. You may apologize now.

PS. You made up the "big bonus", also apologize for that.

wow this is getting out of hand. Could he have done it alone, or with a small group of people, and kept those actions from the party? Unlikely but certainly possible. We will likely never know what happened.

The conservatives are doing a shit job at the federal level. The liberals are overspending like crazy at the provincial level. and their federal party is in chaos from massive losses and no strong leadership. The NDP are still in shock from their incredible election results ad couldnt balance a budget if their life depended on it. The green party is too overly focused on a single idea which makes for a bad platform.

What does that leave? No-one. I would argue that Canada hasnt had good leadership since Jean Chrétien (with Paul Martin as Finance Minister)...despite any scandals. By the way im conservative, so dont bash me for a liberal fanboy. They were the last true centralist party bringing together liberal ideas with highly conservative spending.

I'll completely agree with qwerty, after the point where he says only 1 person could have known. As for Rudiger, I can't properly do justice to any point of argument when the counter-points are coming from someone who chooses to selectively see words. You again ignored the first sentence of the first post. And the title: "Read". This is commonly placed before a statement when you read into it, or there is another way of interpreting the sentence.

I absolutely refuse to believe that an individual staffer paid thousands out of their own pocket. And if all of you want to continue ignoring the facts that have been presented by the official investigations, and the statements by the company owner who actually knows the answer, then you are as they say, ignorant. I can't convince you because it's in ignorance's nature to ignore certain points. All I can do is make it plainly obvious that solid proof has already been provided that the entire scandal could not have been taken on by a single person. For those who are listening:

- The way in which the call center works, as the company owner has even said, requires someone to call in with payment information, to upload a list of names, and to upload a recording.

- The charges would have to have been paid off, so unless a scandal in election spending has occurred, then someone up the chain knew about this charge. Or maybe a staffer felt like donating a few thousand dollars to the campaign, and didn't want any recognition for that donation... Maybe.

- But then there's the question of how any Conservative party staffer got a hold of a Liberal call-list. Not something a low-level staffer can do.

- None of the Conservative party's from out east had an account with this company, but the company owner (who knows the answer to all of this) has already told the public that it was someone from out east (Ontario or Quebec). If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... And the duck's owner says it's a duck, it's probably a freakin' duck! The culprit did not have a Conservative account, and did not just sneak in a new recording.

The logic in my original post was that I was speaking to informed people. Since you were completely ignorant of the reports, and still are, THAT assumption is bad. Every other part of my argument makes sense to an informed reader. Heck, I'll apologize when my profs apologize for the same act: They assume I know everything they're talking about when I walk in the room... No, I didn't read Chapter 1 through 100 last night! Do I get an apology from them? No. It's my own fault. I should've read the required material before sticking my uninformed, ignorant nose in the lecture.