How large was the big bonus given to the staffer?

Again with the selective reading... I have to quote a part of the first paragraph of my last post? Really? Nope. Not wasting my time on anything I've already covered. If ignorant people think I'm giving up, fine with me. The informed and intelligent reader knows I already responded to this in my last post.

Read between the lines, Mike, the big bonus was probably at least $2000. Maybe even $3000! Just gotta read between them lines there.

Originally Posted by mike_302

The informed and intelligent reader knows I already responded to this in my last post.

I'd like to meet this informed and intelligent reader.

Originally Posted by Incognitus

I'd like to meet this informed and intelligent reader.

Nice to meet you.

Edit, and this goes to everyone else:

It is possible that tomorrow you'll die while eating breakfast, although it is very unlikely. Are you going to stop eating breakfast then?
It doesn't make any sense to make decisions based on very unlikely scenarios.

Now think about all the necessary steps to pull this scam off. What is the probability that each step was done by one person? and on top of that the same person completed all of them? The more events that you add, the lower the probability is (just some simple Bayesian Inference), and all the sudden this event looks very unlikely.

But sure, you can walk around singing the "it's possible, one guy did it" song all you want, it doesn't mean anything to say something is possible.

And make sure that while you're at it you go spend all your money in lottery tickets!

Originally Posted by Eternal Fire

Nice to meet you.

Edit, and this goes to everyone else:

It is possible that tomorrow you'll die while eating breakfast, although it is very unlikely. Are you going to stop eating breakfast then?
It doesn't make any sense to make decisions based on very unlikely scenarios.

Now think about all the necessary steps to pull this scam off. What is the probability that each step was done by one person? and on top of that the same person completed all of them? The more events that you add, the lower the probability is (just some simple Bayesian Inference), and all the sudden this event looks very unlikely.

But sure, you can walk around singing the "it's possible, one guy did it" song all you want, it doesn't mean anything to say something is possible.

And make sure that while you're at it you go spend all your money in lottery tickets!

Probably better than someone winning the lottery. Think about what we do know about this. The person that was involved in the scandal has gone, but where is the proof that other ridings have the same problem? Is it all speculation? I think at this point, that's all it is until there is some hard evidence to bring forward. I also saw this weekend that Bob Rae had a little speech that claimed that this was done in more ridings etc, etc. Then he says that the liberals could have won and wants bi elections. This seems a little far out no matter what your political stance is. They're trying to grasp at something that seems to be very localized. the liberals still mad about losing all those ridings in the election. fine. What happened in that one riding should never have happened. and this is no chance game, hard evidence for one riding. Show me the evidence behind the others, then fine, the people involved should be charged/fired. But to claim that your candidate should have won is ridiculous. also, lottery tickets are another form of tax by our provincial government, so therefore, no, I will not buy all lottery tickets. I don't buy "What ifs" from anyone especially politicians

You're outrageously Conservative. You ignore official reports and investigations that don't help you. It happened in many ridings, that was the initial claim, the initial investigation. Back in May, after hte election, a bunch of ridings were found to have this phone scam going on. Official investigations have only recently lead back to this Conservative-ly used phone company.

All the Conservatives that say this is a big, overexaggerated ploy against their NARROWLY WON MAJORITY. You're argument back at the opposition is that "You're over exaggerating the size of this scam". If these thousands of phone calls even affected 500 Liberals (which is the only group they targeted), a campaign or two could have been lost, and your Majority would have been a Minority. Do I really want to go running around screaming "You stole a Majority!"? No. But if I went around last May thinking "Yes! conservatives won a majority", I'd be hanging my head pretty low right now, because that's embarrassing.

No. You're underestimating how this has undermined democracy. If you think that this scam has seriously betrayed Canadian citizens and created an enormous lack of distrust amongst the population, you'll Like this post.

Originally Posted by mike_302

You're outrageously Conservative. You ignore official reports and investigations that don't help you. It happened in many ridings, that was the initial claim, the initial investigation. Back in May, after hte election, a bunch of ridings were found to have this phone scam going on. Official investigations have only recently lead back to this Conservative-ly used phone company.

All the Conservatives that say this is a big, overexaggerated ploy against their NARROWLY WON MAJORITY. You're argument back at the opposition is that "You're over exaggerating the size of this scam". If these thousands of phone calls even affected 500 Liberals (which is the only group they targeted), a campaign or two could have been lost, and your Majority would have been a Minority. Do I really want to go running around screaming "You stole a Majority!"? No. But if I went around last May thinking "Yes! conservatives won a majority", I'd be hanging my head pretty low right now, because that's embarrassing.

No. You're underestimating how this has undermined democracy. If you think that this scam has seriously betrayed Canadian citizens and created an enormous lack of distrust amongst the population, you'll Like this post.

I'll take that as a compliment
Elections canada has not done an official investigation. Right now it's just opposition MPs that are claiming that this occurred. Everything else is speculation until an official investigation occurs. Which investigation was this that you mentioned? I would like to read it if you could give a link, that would be appreciated.

Google it. I'm not using Google for you. The only reason this discussion came up in the news is because the Ottawa Citizen got a hold of official investigation documents and also did its own investigation. Elections Canada has been working on this with the RCMP since the election happened. how do you think phone records were traced and RackNine was discovered? Subpoenas. Don't believe me? READ MORE THAN A CONSERVATIVE NEWSPAPER FOR ONCE. I read both liberal and conservatives newspapers. One makes me want to puke a little more than the other, but that's another story.

As I said. You're uninformed people arguing against stuff you have no clue about, and I waste my time with making these points to you because even when the evidence is starring you in the face, you ignore it, or else when I make a point, I'm basing it off the assumption that I'm talking to an informed person.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Google it. I'm not using Google for you. The only reason this discussion came up in the news is because the Ottawa Citizen got a hold of official investigation documents and also did its own investigation. Elections Canada has been working on this with the RCMP since the election happened. how do you think phone records were traced and RackNine was discovered? Subpoenas. Don't believe me? READ MORE THAN A CONSERVATIVE NEWSPAPER FOR ONCE. I read both liberal and conservatives newspapers. One makes me want to puke a little more than the other, but that's another story.

As I said. You're uninformed people arguing against stuff you have no clue about, and I waste my time with making these points to you because even when the evidence is starring you in the face, you ignore it, or else when I make a point, I'm basing it off the assumption that I'm talking to an informed person.

Google is not the answer to everything. Everything you read on the internet is not fact. Until you can prove that an official investigation has occurred, then everything is just speculation. You did not give the link to where you saw the "Official investigations have only recently lead back to this Conservative-ly used phone company" (quote from your post) You said something without backing it up with facts. Just "google" it is not a citation or a good source, and I'm not the one who is uninformed. You take what the Liberal opposition says and put it here calling it "fact" Where is this evidence from other ridings starring me in the face? I've already said that the one riding that was proven was indeed at fault. I do read numerous liberal papers, and that too was just unproven speculation on your part. There's no need to get defensive. I just wanted to know where you got your information from. I guess I got my answer when you said "google it"

Google leads you to official results. I'm not linking and providing uninformed people with anything if they're lazy about it. I am currently looking at a National Post article, a Times article, and an Ottawa citizen article that say the RCMP and Elections Canada are in the middle of an investigation. Media can't go claiming that for 5 days if it's a lie. I feel like the RCMP and Elections Canada would say, "Media, you're making things up, and we're not doing any of this".

Again, stop getting informed people to do all the work for you.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Google leads you to official results. I'm not linking and providing uninformed people with anything if they're lazy about it. I am currently looking at a National Post article, a Times article, and an Ottawa citizen article that say the RCMP and Elections Canada are in the middle of an investigation. Media can't go claiming that for 5 days if it's a lie. I feel like the RCMP and Elections Canada would say, "Media, you're making things up, and we're not doing any of this".

Again, stop getting informed people to do all the work for you.

I read all these articles. Some of which I will post here concerning the topic we're talking about. Notice how inconclusive they are. I want answers as much as you do, but until the investigation is done, all we have is the opposition accusing, and the conservatives denying. Again, wait until the investigation is done, stop saying that the investigation is condemning the conservatives, and maybe answer some questions that people post to you. This is not laziness, this is proving your point without complaining and debating with facts


Oh, and by the way, this was released by global national this afternoon. I also included a link because i like to inform uninformed people:
The RCMP and Elections Canada are investigating, but have yet to link the Conservatives to the robocalls. -global national
http://www.globalnational.co m/robo...703/story.html

Originally Posted by mike_302

Google leads you to official results. I'm not linking and providing uninformed people with anything if they're lazy about it....

I may agree with you on many points, but why are you being such a little b*tch about this whole thing? Just link, explain, and do what you have to to get your point across? Do you think that acting like this is going to help anybody? You're alienating.

You're making misspolitics look like a reasonble person, man... :O

tee hee

Originally Posted by RyanC

I may agree with you on many points, but why are you being such a little b*tch about this whole thing? Just link, explain, and do what you have to to get your point across? Do you think that acting like this is going to help anybody? You're alienating.

You're making misspolitics look like a reasonble person, man... :O

tee hee

This!
If you're so sick of being "attacked", then just provide the links, state your points, and be done with it!

http://www.canada.com/news/Robocall+...152/story.html --- An Elections Canada investigation into black ops "robocalls" was focused on a Conservative Party campaign in Guelph, Ontario, documents obtained by Postmedia News and the Ottawa Citizen show. A court order executed on an Edmonton call centre in November specifically refers to records related to the campaign of Conservative candidate Marty Burke in Guelph, Ontario

http://www.globaltoronto.com /roboc...703/story.html --- The reports were fuelled by an ongoing Elections Canada investigation first detailed last week by Postmedia News and the Ottawa Citizen. The report revealed that Elections Canada had traced fraudulent automated phone calls made during the 2011 federal campaign to an Edmonton company with Conservative ties. The RCMP and Elections Canada are investigating, but have yet to link the Conservatives to the robocalls.

So this shows you're ignoring the obvious news. It's proof that an official investigation is underway. Just like I said it was, and just like you denied.

Remember this?

Originally Posted by Misspolitics

Elections canada has not done an official investigation.

and

Originally Posted by Misspolitics

Until you can prove that an official investigation has occurred, then everything is just speculation.

How about:

Originally Posted by Misspolitics

Is it all speculation? I think at this point, that's all it is until there is some hard evidence to bring forward.

Now how about this:

Originally Posted by mike_302

Back in May, after hte election, a bunch of ridings were found to have this phone scam going on. Official investigations have only recently lead back to this Conservative-ly used phone company.

I should point out that my last news link (globaltoronto.com) is the same quotation that you just tried to throw at me. Notice how I took all the material that was around it? You took the statement out of context. Typical Conservative/American-style political campaign tactic. It says that the Conservatives (referring to them as a Federal party) have not been linked to the calls. Yes: That was established long ago in this thread. That was the basis of my first argument. I have never ever claimed, or even insinuated that an investigation has been able to blame the Federal party for the phone calls. It started with the media's insinuation that a lone staffer may have been the culprit, and the Conservative party's claim that a rogue staffer was the only person involved. This entire thread started on my argument that one lone rogue staffer couldn't have done this whole thing alone.

So now that you're entire argument for the last 5 posts has been blown out of the water... Let's provide some Conservative newspaper quote, just to further back my point:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Har...671/story.html
The Postmedia News-Ottawa Citizen investigation found that Elections Canada traced fraudulent calls to RackNine Inc., a small Edmonton call centre that worked for the Conservatives' national campaign and those of at least nine Tory candidates, including Harper himself in Calgary Southwest.
There is no evidence that Harper's campaign or those of any of the other candidates were involved in the calls. RackNine said it was unaware its servers were being used for the fake calls.

I'll bet hard core Conservatives won't like this post.