Originally Posted by mike_302

I'll bet J.Dorey and the rest of the obviously hard core Conservatives won't like this post.

How did I get thrown into this? If you look a few posts up, I actually call all politicians liars. I have absolutely no political affiliation. I was just backing up what RyanC said when he was asking for links to further prove your argument...

Also, if you look down, I'm in Cultural Studies. I think it would be very difficult for me to argue the topics that I study (race, sexuality, gender, etc.) from a right-wing perspective. Just throwing that out there.

Sorry. Possibly a bit personal. Name removed.

Originally Posted by mike_302

Sorry. Possibly a bit personal. Name removed.

Ah, no worries. I'm all for your argument by the way.

Originally Posted by mike_302

I have never ever claimed, or even insinuated that an investigation has been able to blame the Federal party for the phone calls.

This^ I believe your first post was :"Only the campaign team would know. And then that's Conservative money after that. Chalk that up for another sneaky lie by the Conservatives that will get brushed under the table soon enough, because "remember the Liberals and their Sponsorship Scandal that one time nearly a decade ago!?"

If you were not blaming the conservatives or were implying something entirely different, then please, explain what you mean because this looks like you're blaming all conservatives. The sponsorship is old news, yes, but the liberals are in the midst of their own little scandal at the moment themselves. However, I am not going into that scandal (yet. It's a topic for another political thread, though ) As for the news agencies, nothing was taken out of context and you explained it the same way I did. "It says that the Conservatives (referring to them as a Federal party) have not been linked to the calls." I want to know what happened. If there was a law broken, then I want those who were involved to be held accountable. I really don't care whether they're conservative, non conservatives trying to set up conservatives or whatever. Then Elections canada was on an ottawa radio station saying that the day before the election, 120 stations were officially changed. This matters little to me and it's confusing because everyone is blaming everyone. The whole situation stinks as scandal, but our information is limited at this point until more is released. I Just want to know what happened and whether people were stopped from practicing their basic right to vote, and if so, then the perpetrators need to be caught (As I've said many times) While listening to the radio today, I also heard that elections canada changed 120 polling booths the day before the election. I didn't hear the full story, and the source was sun media, so take from this what you will. It's just another piece to this puzzle

Thanks for telling us that Elections Canada changed 120 polling stations on election day. This is standard procedure. Not some shifty move that somehow even slightly justifies, or lessens the damage that has been done by Conservative party members by fake calling to suppress opposition voter turn-out.

You're past arguments are all done. Stop it there.

My original post is this: Me saying that more than 1 staffer knew about it. I'm not sure if I believe Harper knew, or anyone superbly high up. But someone in charge of Conservative money had to know that some small political staffer paid for a fake robo-call campaign. It IS Conservative money, and it IS swept under the carpet by some Conservative campaign team in that case, just as the Conservative campaign manager is trying to do by saying, "it was one rogue person, trust us". My point is very clear this entire time, and I think many would agree.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canad...202108363.html

I don't know if this has been posted, but this explains a lot, even if you just read the title.

Originally Posted by J. Dorey

How did I get thrown into this? If you look a few posts up, I actually call all politicians liars. I have absolutely no political affiliation. I was just backing up what RyanC said when he was asking for links to further prove your argument...

the pic says it all:

Originally Posted by Eternal Fire

the pic says it all:

haha. Yeah, I guess you can say that I study the ticks and why they became ticks lol

Originally Posted by mike_302

Thanks for telling us that Elections Canada changed 120 polling stations on election day. This is standard procedure. Not some shifty move that somehow even slightly justifies, or lessens the damage that has been done by Conservative party members by fake calling to suppress opposition voter turn-out.

You're past arguments are all done. Stop it there.

My original post is this: Me saying that more than 1 staffer knew about it. I'm not sure if I believe Harper knew, or anyone superbly high up. But someone in charge of Conservative money had to know that some small political staffer paid for a fake robo-call campaign. It IS Conservative money, and it IS swept under the carpet by some Conservative campaign team in that case, just as the Conservative campaign manager is trying to do by saying, "it was one rogue person, trust us". My point is very clear this entire time, and I think many would agree.

Nothing is done yet. Part of studying this situation is to take all information into account not just bits and pieces. I feel that we're just scratching the surface of this debate. To stop now won't answer any questions, and to take one side over another, at this point, will answer nothing. My past arguments can still be taken into account because all answers have not come out yet, so everything still has it's role. Again, all that matters is that the truth comes out.

Originally Posted by Misspolitics

My past arguments can still be taken into account because all answers have not come out yet, so everything still has it's role.

Mmmmm... They can't be taken into account if you've read the quotes from multiple sources that I've provided, and paid attention to what's going on. All your arguments were just contradicted by MANY different sources. But Conservatives live in their own little world, so I'll let this go and say, "Sure... Your points are still valid."

I'm just going to go back to my school work and wonder what little of our Democracy will remain in 3 more Conservative-ly Dictated years.

I'm not sure how to interpret the ridings with claims of the false or misleading calls. Out of the 27 ridings listed 20 of them were won by the Conservatives while 4 were won by NDP and just 3 for the Liberals.

Could be that people only complained after they saw the results of the election. Could be that the person or people behind it targeted these ridings. Could be that the conservatives got lucky winning many close ridings. Can't wait to see how it unfolds

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...a.html?cmp=rss

LOOOOOOOL, Democracy is dead if there are 2,300 cases of elections violation reports that have not been publicly concluded, since 2004. And also if the Conservatives are allowed to get their hands on evidence before the investigators do... When it comes to the law, a criminal doesn't get full-contact access to all the evidence against him/her. When it comes ot the Conservatives, they do whatever they gosh-darn well please.

And now the Conservatives have their feet, ankles, and a good portion of their calves in their mouth with this blame game that, as it turns out, was all incorrect!

Conservative: "Liberals caused the robocalls! They used this company, which may have also been involved with the reported harassing and voter suppressing phone calls!" (Note, now the Conservatives are trying to imply that the Liberals sabotaged their own campaign)

Liberal in response: "Uhhhh, Mr. Speaker... The Conservatives have the name of the company right, but as you can clearly see here on record, they are different companies, in different countries"

Conservative: {If I sit down quietly... Maybe no one will notice}

OOOOOPS.

"Before the robocalls story first broke last month, Prescott told the Ottawa Citizen he had paid for RackNine bills himself and was reimbursed by the campaign through the $1,100 he was paid.

But an agreement signed by Morgan and Ali on March 26, at the beginning of the campaign, shows Prescott was always to be paid $1,100 as an honourium for providing “general labour” on the campaign.

Other campaign workers who had similar agreements in place were reimbursed for the costs they incurred during the course of the campaign. But there is no sign of any expenses Prescott incurred.

In a blog post in July, not long after the election, Prescott described himself as a “cellphone expert.”

“Being an IT guy, and being the resident cellphone expert amongst my friends and political circles, people ask me for advice on who’s got the best deals for cellphones.”"

http://news.nationalpost.com /2012/...investigation/

This is oddly accurate to what I predicted. Granted, this isn't CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Guelph campaign was behind all these robocalls, but you know what: It's unfolding the way I said the situation likely was.

We have multiple individuals on the campaign who know of these RackNine bills. One guy paid for it, and then the bills were mishandled. Then that person received an arbitrary $1,100 "honorarium" for his good work on the campaign.

Yesterday, a Conservative MP tried to tell Canada that it was the Elections Canada (the people that organize campaigns) that were to blame. At the same time, Harper himself was insisting that the Liberals were the only ones that had to answer for their actions, and that the Conservatives don't have to show any evidence of their campaign spending. (http://www.theglobeandmail.c om/new...rticle2359412/)

Conservative readers may go ahead and vote down this post... It doesn't make the Conservatives look like leaders, but rather like people who put themselves above the law, and that's not good for Conservative voters.

LOOOOOOOOL

"A Postmedia report last week showed Elections Canada has alleged the Internet Protocol address in question, which is like an Internet phone number, was used by Guelph campaign worker Andrew Prescott to arrange legitimate calls through RackNine, the Edmonton voice broadcasting firm.

But the same IP address was also used to arrange the fraudulent “Pierre Poutine” calls that pretended to be from Elections Canada and sent hundreds of electors to the wrong polling stations, Elections Canada alleges in court documents."
http://news.nationalpost.com /2012/...electoral-law/

GAME OVER.

And they still deny any connection to it. Our democracy is fried.

Originally Posted by mike_302

LOOOOOOOOL

"A Postmedia report last week showed Elections Canada has alleged the Internet Protocol address in question, which is like an Internet phone number, was used by Guelph campaign worker Andrew Prescott to arrange legitimate calls through RackNine, the Edmonton voice broadcasting firm.

But the same IP address was also used to arrange the fraudulent “Pierre Poutine” calls that pretended to be from Elections Canada and sent hundreds of electors to the wrong polling stations, Elections Canada alleges in court documents."
http://news.nationalpost.com /2012/...electoral-law/

GAME OVER.

And they still deny any connection to it. Our democracy is fried.

Maybe. This can be similar to piracy lawsuits where the case was thrown out of court because IP addresses are not IDs. It doesn't even say who owns the IP address (If it's private or public), as well as if the wireless connection (If there is one) is secure (and even if it's secure, it can still be hacked). It may be true that it was the same person or another member of the conservative party who made the fraudulent calls, but that remains to be determined by the investigation and/or the independent inquiry.