Originally Posted by robots

if you can't see the systematic oppression facing women today from earning 70% of a man's pay, to the fact that 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime then you're not paying attention.

the way this patriarchal society we live in is structured makes these things structural and barely visible. they are so deep rooted in our society that you are blind to them. this country was built on a patriarchal ideology and this hegemonic view point is still rooted in society.

so you get no sympathy from me for playing the "OHNOES MENS R BEING OPPRESSED" card. i suppose you're going to ask for a white history month and white studies next?

This is an unintelligible argument, you're saying that simply because women make less money than men that men "can't" be oppressed? I'd love to see you cite these extraordinary claims like

Originally Posted by robots

1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime

Men are being oppressed in many of the ways that the original poster mentioned, you can talk to any man that has had to go to a family court to fight for their children and ask if they were treated fairly. Or ask a man who was mentally or physically assaulted by their female counterpart if they felt comfortable reporting it, or if they were taken seriously when they did.

If you are only concerned with solving the problems oppressing only one gender you are not better than a misogynist, you are a misandrist.

lets face it, women are superior to us

am i the only one who found this statement slightly offensive?

"because of some lying mentally deranged woman? This is a lot more common than you think, you likely know a girl or two who has falsely accused someone of rape."

.... like seriously?... where was this statistic taken from?

Originally Posted by robots

the way this patriarchal society we live in is structured makes these things structural and barely visible. they are so deep rooted in our society that you are blind to them. this country was built on a patriarchal ideology and this hegemonic view point is still rooted in society.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0

I think every ad out there is targeted at men when it comes to taking advantage of women, it's a "guilty until proven innocent" ideology and it's disgusting.

Here's an example:

Originally Posted by robots

if you can't see the systematic oppression facing women today from earning 70% of a man's pay

The thing is it isn't systematic. Overall women CHOOSE to take lower paying jobs in favor of other factors. If you are a women and want to be a succesful well paid businesswomen, it's not that you will automatically get 70% underpaid, its that there are few women that value a high salary as much as men do. Read this

Originally Posted by robots

to the fact that 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime

unfortunate, but not systematic. The government doesn't encourage this or accept this in any way. I'm not saying these differences don't exist I'm pointing out the difference between systematic oppression and gender differences. Compare it to conscription laws for men, one is systematically sexist and one isn't as simple. How do you eliminate sexist conscription laws? Get rid of the law. How do you reduce the number of women who will be sexually assaulted?

Originally Posted by robots

the way this patriarchal society we live in is structured makes these things structural and barely visible. they are so deep rooted in our society that you are blind to them. this country was built on a patriarchal ideology and this hegemonic view point is still rooted in society.

You just gave a yeti argument. You can't actually see it but its there. Maybe the yeti does exist and maybe there is a conscious structure that is hell bent on making womens lives inconvenient. "barely visible" more like "made up by feminists to feel cheated". If anything I think the problem is the myth of oppression. The glass ceiling was created by and constantly enforced by feminists, not by our "patriarchal society". Women are half of society, so either your math is wrong or you are giving no value or responsibility to women.

Originally Posted by robots

so you get no sympathy from me for playing the "OHNOES MENS R BEING OPPRESSED" card. i suppose you're going to ask for a white history month and white studies next?

Why don't you think men are oppressed? Think outside of the feminist trap for one second and maybe you'll understand what other people are getting at.

Well this topic seems to be drifting further and further towards being openly sexist...

Originally Posted by Tailsnake

Well this topic seems to be drifting further and further towards being openly sexist...

how so? I hope this wasn't targeted towards me, its unfortunate people think women are less capable then men and therefore buy into the whole "protect our women because they need it, **** the men they can handle it on there own"

lol... mens rights... we have none

Originally Posted by Tailsnake

Well this topic seems to be drifting further and further towards being openly sexist...

well the premise of the original post was openly sexist so the posts are not surprising. Aren't you a mod or something? why don't you do you do your modly duties?

Originally Posted by robots

if you can't see the systematic oppression facing women today from earning 70% of a man's pay, to the fact that 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime then you're not paying attention.

Well women are the ones who hold the power in terms of giving sex, so of course there'll exist trends towards that sex being forcibly taken from them. Guys pretty much give it up whenever they get the chance, the women decide when to give it up: if we lived in a society where women were walking hormone factories, giving it out every chance they got, and men were the fragile creatures who held their body as special, which way do you think the statistic would be biased towards?

Women are not paid less than men; this is garunteed by provincial and federal employment acts. The statistic you're referring to when viewed through feminist eyes doesn't take into consideration the psychology of the perception of male vs female employees, the bottom line, or experience consideration. Men were historically expected to go to college and gain seniority at work, whereas things are in the process of changing. I very much doubt the experience consideration really matters, so I doubt that 70% statistic still holds when you adjust for all that. Wages are equal, and most women have the same opportunties as men, but men tend to work more. Employers are less likely to hire women because they can take maternity leave. Male employees are apparently seen as more competant (a historical perception effect). All these things lead to making it seem like there is a gap in wages.

Basically you're offended that somebody is drawing attention to mens rights when you think women are already disadvantaged, when the point of drawing attention to rights issues is to protect those are opressed, not increase the rights of those of privilige even moreso..

BASICALLY: its important to bring awareness to the rights of men in these specific situations where biases lead to inequality, not somehow say men are more important, and women are less important. Obviously women are being sexually assaulted, but on the other side of the coin, not all of these claims are true. What this means is that you cant just take the belief that women are oppressed (omgz they're assaulted more!) and let that bias you to the point where assault against men isn't a concern. (for one example)

tldr: refer to thedog's picture :S

Originally Posted by sinthusized

well the premise of the original post was openly sexist so the posts are not surprising. Aren't you a mod or something? why don't you do you do your modly duties?

Things haven't really gotten that bad yet, and I feel that there might be some discussion worth having around the subject. The second the topic shifts from discussion towards hostile sexist comments (in which case the topic will clearly violate the inclusivity portion of the site's code of conduct) the topic will be closed.

Originally Posted by mattatmac

I think every ad out there is targeted at men when it comes to taking advantage of women, it's a "guilty until proven innocent" ideology and it's disgusting.

Here's an example:

Ads are meant to target the most people for the least amount of money. The majority of people are heterosexual, and the majority of rape cases are men against women. There's not point in making an add that 90% of people are going to ignore (ex, anywhere from 2 tp 13% of people are homosexual [wiki], but you don't see many homosexual sexual assault ads).

As for guilty until proven innocent... It's everywhere - if you hear someone's been charged for murder, I doubt you would go back to their house for drinks (ie, you behave as if they were guilty, not the other way around).

Originally Posted by britb

Ads are meant to target the most people for the least amount of money. The majority of people are heterosexual, and the majority of rape cases are men against women. There's not point in making an add that 90% of people are going to ignore (ex, anywhere from 2 tp 13% of people are homosexual [wiki], but you don't see many homosexual sexual assault ads).

As for guilty until proven innocent... It's everywhere - if you hear someone's been charged for murder, I doubt you would go back to their house for drinks (ie, you behave as if they were guilty, not the other way around).

Just to add to your point, there are also many cases of the opposite of these ads happening. Women often get told that they are "asking for it" because they dressed a certain way, were alone at night, were in the wrong area of town, etc and were subsequently sexually assaulted. The message is being delivered to both parties (whether or not it's being delivered equally or fairly seems to be argued a lot though).