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i think i am failing Math 2Z03...

 
Old 12-18-2011 at 10:23 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by mike_302 View Post
It's not the Eng faculty though. It's the math department. And math department ethics and practices are whack...
lol
Old 12-18-2011 at 10:27 AM   #17
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Its not like they are purposely failling people, they are adding marks to people marks so they pass when they should be failing. So its not like they are technically doing any thing wrong.
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Old 12-18-2011 at 10:39 AM   #18
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Does mac really work like that? :S

Just because a course is offered in summer??
They won't shift marks down so that people fail...they just have less incentive to shift marks up (ie, add marks to everyone's exam that they did not actually earn) because anyone who failed can re-take it in summer school and it will not significantly set them behind.

In comparison, I have several courses that are offered once every other year, and you take them in 3rd/4th year...so if you fail, you can't graduate on time (and it will put you into a 5th or 6th year of your undergrad). I strongly suspect that in these cases, they are much more likely to pass students who are on the borderline of pass/fail, particularly if the student has put in effort throughout the term.
Old 12-18-2011 at 11:40 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by nerual View Post
They won't shift marks down so that people fail...they just have less incentive to shift marks up (ie, add marks to everyone's exam that they did not actually earn) because anyone who failed can re-take it in summer school and it will not significantly set them behind.

In comparison, I have several courses that are offered once every other year, and you take them in 3rd/4th year...so if you fail, you can't graduate on time (and it will put you into a 5th or 6th year of your undergrad). I strongly suspect that in these cases, they are much more likely to pass students who are on the borderline of pass/fail, particularly if the student has put in effort throughout the term.
If it were all a big money-grab, that would provide even less incentive to shift marks up... then they have to spend an entire year's tuition (including things like fees to the MSU), and not simply a summer's worth.

I've worked as a grader in the math department, and although you've no reason to trust what I have to say, I've witnessed first hand that professors go to every effort in order to maximize grades. (Such as offering multiple grading schemes that students are not even aware of)

If the students have high grades, that reflects well on the professor. It boils down to politics.
Old 12-18-2011 at 11:43 AM   #20
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If it were all a big money-grab, that would provide even less incentive to shift marks up... then they have to spend an entire year's tuition (including things like fees to the MSU), and not simply a summer's worth.
I disagree--I can come back to take a single extra course, there's no reason why I would take a full courseload. I would come back as a part-time student. Courses are no less expensive in the summer than they are during the school year.
Old 12-18-2011 at 11:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
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I disagree--I can come back to take a single extra course, there's no reason why I would take a full courseload. I would come back as a part-time student. Courses are no less expensive in the summer than they are during the school year.
Even if you take three units during the school year, you have to pay additional part-time student fees, such as membership in the MSU (fees that are not part of your agreement in the summer term)...and having done 4 years of a bachelors, would you honestly drop it if you were one course away?

If so, I believe you're in the minority...of course people would pay just that little more if it was the difference between having a piece of paper or not. Hypothetically, Mac could just declare some kind of steep $400 "graduation/degree conferral fee," and people would just eat that up because they're 'so close.' ("Foot in the door" technique I guess it's called)

I believe if someone failed a second year course, they would be far more likely to just drop the program, or even drop out entirely, than someone just about to graduate.

---------------

EDIT: And before this goes way off topic, note that I'm simply suggesting this argument is invalid...that there's a problem with the reasoning that Mac is just a big money-grabber, and will fail students for monetary gain. . In ways, I'd say it is, but I'm certainly not arguing that Mac would use monetary incentives to let students fail. Quite the contrary, as I said in my previous post.
Old 12-18-2011 at 11:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognitus View Post
Even if you take three units during the school year, you have to pay additional part-time student fees, such as membership in the MSU (fees that are not part of your agreement in the summer term)...and having done 4 years of a bachelors, would you honestly drop it if you were one course away?

If so, I believe you're in the minority...of course people would pay just that little more if it was the difference between having a piece of paper or not. Hypothetically, Mac could just declare some kind of steep $400 "graduation/degree conferral fee," and people would just eat that up because they're 'so close.' ("Foot in the door" technique I guess it's called)

I believe if someone failed a second year course, they would be far more likely to just drop the program, or even drop out entirely, than someone just about to graduate.
If I were taking 3 units, I would not pay MSU fees because only people with 18+ units are MSU members. There would be (much smaller) fees to MAPS (I think that's what it's called?), but that's completely irrelevant. MAPS, or the MSU for that matter, has no control over how many people pass or fail which courses, so the fees that I may or may not have to pay to them based on failing a course and having to come back for an extra year have no effect on a prof's incentive to pass a student or not. It also has nothing to do with "paying a little bit extra to graduate vs not graduate."
Old 12-18-2011 at 12:02 PM   #23
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At any rate, money is a non-issue. That's what we're both saying.
Old 12-18-2011 at 03:03 PM   #24
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Out of curiosity, do people in engineering programs just care about passing? I mean, how is it possible to have a 10 average with 5 exams in three days, not to mention - the inherent rigor that comes along with an engineering degree (I would assume).
Old 12-18-2011 at 03:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NahLeoNah View Post
Out of curiosity, do people in engineering programs just care about passing? I mean, how is it possible to have a 10 average with 5 exams in three days, not to mention - the inherent rigor that comes along with an engineering degree (I would assume).
Depends on the person.

In general it's not a big deal if someone doesn't get 12s, but out of my friends in engineering most aim for a 12.0 GPA (though only one person I know has managed it, the rest are like 11.7-11.9).
Old 12-18-2011 at 04:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Alchemist11 View Post
In general it's not a big deal if someone doesn't get 12s, but out of my friends in engineering most aim for a 12.0 GPA (though only one person I know has managed it, the rest are like 11.7-11.9).
Its great having friends that are optimistic about everything. Keeps the mood cheery.
Or maybe I'm just the pessimist.
Old 12-18-2011 at 06:40 PM   #27
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"The rest have 11.7-11.9" ? Holy ****, did you just get the Honour Lists and facebook these people? Those are relatively rare finds.
Old 12-18-2011 at 06:55 PM   #28
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what?? the smartest person I knew got a 10.something first year
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Old 12-18-2011 at 07:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_302 View Post
"The rest have 11.7-11.9" ? Holy ****, did you just get the Honour Lists and facebook these people? Those are relatively rare finds.
LOL no, I've known these people for years (we went to high school together and whatnot), though I met one of them in first year. I don't think any of them are extraordinary or anything, they seem to be average to above average intelligence and same with work ethic.

I know that they usually do pretty well (I've seen the marks from 2z03 last year and they were near the top of the class and such) but I never figured that they were amazing students or anything.
Old 12-18-2011 at 08:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist11 View Post
LOL no, I've known these people for years (we went to high school together and whatnot), though I met one of them in first year. I don't think any of them are extraordinary or anything, they seem to be average to above average intelligence and same with work ethic.

I know that they usually do pretty well (I've seen the marks from 2z03 last year and they were near the top of the class and such) but I never figured that they were amazing students or anything.
Well, that's pretty amazing... May I ask what disciplines they are in? If they have those kind of averages in ECE then I'm seriously appalled.



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