Originally Posted by AelyaS

the service in itself isnt exactly honest. How is this fair to the students who actually worked dilligently towards earning their degrees instead of copping out and getting someone else to do it for them?

I just feel like he could do a lot more, since he obviously has the intellectual capacity and patience.

Its merely based on your personal morals. In a world like today, Im half the people you know (if not more) cheat in some way or another. Your growing up with a society filled with them. They will be working with you in the future. They may even become your spouse. As time goes on it really makes no difference.

In essence, more water under the bridge.

Originally Posted by xxsumz

Its merely based on your personal morals. In a world like today, Im half the people you know (if not more) cheat in some way or another. Your growing up with a society filled with them. They will be working with you in the future. They may even become your spouse. As time goes on it really makes no difference.

In essence, more water under the bridge.

So where do we draw the line?

Originally Posted by AelyaS

So where do we draw the line?

At the law that says he is aiding and abetting fraud. The girl in the article clearly has no understanding of her area of study and absolutely atrocious english skills, yet she has a degree she has not earned and will get paid more because of it. How is this any better than buying fake diplomas and parading them around as real ones, which by the way is kind of illegal?

Originally Posted by REPLEKIA/.

At the law that says he is aiding and abetting fraud. The girl in the article clearly has no understanding of her area of study and absolutely atrocious english skills, yet she has a degree she has not earned and will get paid more because of it. How is this any better than buying fake diplomas and parading them around as real ones, which by the way is kind of illegal?

Fake diplomas carriers= just about every pakistani politician.

I know what you mean though. Thanks for breaking it down like that.

brb, adding this guy to my friends' list

Originally Posted by Tailsnake

but I've even heard of people writing tests for each other

How is that even possible... don't they look at student cards?

Originally Posted by Rakim

How is that even possible... don't they look at student cards?

To be honest, except for first year and my management courses, I haven't seen more than like 4 invigilators that look at student cards.

Originally Posted by BlakeM

and my management courses,

Goddamnit |:

Originally Posted by Rakim

How is that even possible... don't they look at student cards?

Two of my midterms, you just walked in, sat where you wanted to, asked for a test, completed it and left.

I had people right next to me on either side, and no one asked for a card.

It probably depends on the size of your class. My Latin professor doesn't ask for student cards because there are only around 30-40 people in that class. If he's seen you in that class, you're probably part of the class. It'll be a stretch if someone goes there without being part of that class frequently to write the test for someone else.

Compare this to 150-ish x 3 lectures for Math 1A03, in which lectures are mixed together during the midterm. Obviously, they have to check the ID cards.

Originally Posted by xxsumz

Interesting. Not surprising either IMO.



I dont see anything wrong with what hes doing. Hes providing a service that people are paying for.

Aelya is right. Not only is he helping students get degrees which they have not earned (almost like fake degrees, but not quite). When he is helping all of these students (especially the ones that are ridiculously incompetent in their field) he is taking away from the work of those students who have truly worked hard on their own work.

Imagine you have prepared ridiculously hard for an essay and it is one of the best pieces of work you've done. Now imagine another student paying for someone else to do an essay for them. Assuming the person writing the essay is very good at it, the other student will have produced, at bare minimum, just as good of an essay as you, and perhaps an even better one.

What did this other student have to give up? Well most certainly only a very small fraction of the time you did. Almost not hard work, and only exhausted some cash (for the rich lazy students, that's nothing to them).

Now your professor is grading your work. Well he sees the other student's essay and is quite impressed by it, thus giving a good mark to that student. Now he/she looks at your essay, and though it is a good essay, you get a lower mark because that other student produced a better essay.

So the more students that are able to produce high quality essays the more it impacts the marks of other students (I highly doubt the professor would be so objective as to mark each individual work separately and without influence from other work).

Not only that, it also makes it unfair in another way for those who have not cheated due to competition for employment. Those who have cheated and have gotten exceptional marks make it even harder for those who have worked honestly because the pool of potential employees (the students) corresponds with a higher average (grade) than normal. Thus any one student's chance decreases due to the (unfair) performance of other students.

Let me tell you, I would definitely be infuriated if fellow students were lowering my opportunities because they have unfairly obtained work (which they barely had to do anything for, other than pay the money and give the instructions).

Great read Rakim. Thanks.

Before I post my response, I want to know something. Are diplomas and all the 'fruits' of university limited in quantity and given only to the best, or is it given to you once you meet certain requirements? Essentially, are you competing against other students or only against yourself?

*hangs head*
Somedays I feel like such a doormat especially when I read something like this article.

I would rather fail than cheat.

Not only have you devalued your degree to the point where it becomes an really expensive piece of paper that took 3-4 years to print but you have also brought down the value of the degrees of everyone of your classmates.

What drives me even crazier is the fact that rather than cracking down on the kind of cheating described in the article MAC has decided that "improper collaboration" is a huge issue. OMG! I was working in a group and we all came up with a hypothesis together and all copied it in the same words. That deserves to be called cheating.

I could go on but I bet you would prefer I don't.

Originally Posted by SilentWalker

Great read Rakim. Thanks.

Before I post my response, I want to know something. Are diplomas and all the 'fruits' of university limited in quantity and given only to the best, or is it given to you once you meet certain requirements? Essentially, are you competing against other students or only against yourself?

You're only competing against yourself but we do have to look at supply and demand, and increasing the supply of people with a certain degree/diploma reduces demand thus making people who legitimately earned the degree earn less or not find a job (due to increased competition).

Originally Posted by Tailsnake

Why do you exist...?

Great article Rakim. Read the whole thing. Almost shocking. Not only does it show how ridiculous some students and people are, but I think it shows that there is something wrong with the whole university system. I can't quite explain what it is, but some things mentioned in the article showed how schools don't ensure that the students' work is actually their own.