not if you're attractive?

It's interesting that after all the ballots were counted, even if all the abstentation and spoiled ballots were counted as 'Yes' ballots, they STILL don't add up or even come close to the 600 signatures needed to bring this issue to a referendum in the first place.

Makes you wonder that if they couldn't even match that number in the actual referendum, how did they get the 600 signatures in the first place? A little bending of the facts and/or coercion, perhaps?

Also Chad, not that it makes a huge difference, but the number of 'spoiled' ballots is 282, not 284. Just want to prevent more conspiracy/corruption allegations from starting

I am curious though why when I went to vote, the poll clerk, when asked about the referendum said to pick no??, its seems there is more to this then meets the eye!!

:O report this to the CRO or DRO. This poll clerk was clearly not doing his/her job appropriately and should have the same fate as the one from the eng booth on day one.

Originally Posted by summer

It's interesting that after all the ballots were counted, even if all the abstentation and spoiled ballots were counted as 'Yes' ballots, they STILL don't add up or even come close to the 600 signatures needed to bring this issue to a referendum in the first place.

Makes you wonder that if they couldn't even match that number in the actual referendum, how did they get the 600 signatures in the first place? A little bending of the facts and/or coercion, perhaps?

It could be that the signatures were collected last year and many of the students who signed are no longer full-time undergraduate students at McMaster and unable to vote this year.

I was accused of coercion when I collected signatures against the firing of The Silhouette editor without cause and in violation of MSU policy by the Executive two years ago.

I found this from a macinsiders user from the other discussion:

"Did you guys take into consideration that maybe the people who signed the forms were forced into it? Maybe those people weren't left alone and were being harassed to sign it. How would I know? Well, I was one of those people. I told them straight up that this would never go through. However, I didn't at all appreciate being forced to do something I didn't want to do...."

My housemate was also cooerced into this last year. She was told in her class that it was to help make thode library better and the DVD service was to go to support that.

At this point, it doesn't really matter. It won't change the results of the past referendum. All we can do is look into reviewing the whole process.. and this review is certainly going on.

I would caution the MSU from making it harder or removing the ability to petition for action by the MSU. Clearly, the process worked. Students had their say.

I don't think the issue is to make the process of petitioning for action harder, I think it's more about drawing the distinction of asking for referendums for a specific purpose. From the beginning, I haven't disagreed with a DVD rental service on campus, I have disagreed with the way it was gone about ie. asking for a mandatory fee from every student (opt out or not). There should be room for parties interested in such a service to put their proposals forward but in this case, it was a gross abuse of the referendum process which in the past has been used for purposes that directly benefit students in their education or the McMaster community. I think the SRA and/or MSU can make that distinction.

Also, in response to the question of coercion, Joey, my point was that even if those students DID leave, you woud assume that there would be a somewhat similar number who would support it still, since when those students left, more came in, but there clearly weren't. And I wasn't making the coercion stuff up or accusing them of it. I was approached by these guys too and they were less than diplomatic or informative.

The MSU should have no power to decide if a petition signed by the student body is valid or not. If students sign it, the MSU must respect.

To give politicians power that used to belong to the electorate is inviting abuse of power.

I think it might be a good idea to consider making it easier to recognize the individuals putting the referendum through.

One of the problems I saw was that it was an external company was really trying to push this through and a lot of the campaign material was promoting that one company that didn't even have a guarentee of getting the contract. In the coke referendum, it was a club that really pushed it through. At least we knew that was a student initiative.
Yes there was a campaign side to this past referendum but it didn't really have any clear ties to any mcmaster organization besides just a general group of students. Not that this was a bad thing if it were the actual case. But, was it these students who paid for all of the campaign material? Was it even just these students who were doing all the campaign work?
I met a guy named "Jack" while out in front of the student centre this past week. He was handing out those "rich secretaries" white flyers and clearly wasn't even a student. :S


A completely off-topic but altogether pivotal aside: http://www.dailypuppy.com/

Originally Posted by fullsmash26

The MSU should have no power to decide if a petition signed by the student body is valid or not. If students sign it, the MSU must respect.

To give politicians power that used to belong to the electorate is inviting abuse of power.

Joey, I'm agreeing with you. All I'm saying is that there should be some sort of distinction between student initiatives and external organizations trying to attach frivolous fees to every student. Like I've already said, external groups SHOULD have a venue to put forward proposals but referendums for mandatory student fees should NOT be one of them.

The MSU DID respect it, that's why it came to a referendum in the first place.

There is long history of external groups using the General Assembly to pass a fee.

Both OPIRG and the Canadian Federation of Students have passed (or kept in the case of the corporation that is the CFS) fees using General Assembly. If you close off the referendum method, you invite people to use GA which is quicker, easier and hard to undo.

That's a fair point, Joey, but I also think it isn't right to vilify one side of the question ie. the MSU/SRA and not put any responsibility on the other side.

Like Temara said, the Bylaws and Preocedures Committee is looking into what needs to be done so that we are not in this situation again. But to be fair, students AND the SRA have never really been in this position before. That's the only reason it has become so controversial in the first place, neither side has any precedent to follow. Maybe there needs to be a change in procedure if the SRA decides to take a stance on a future referendum. And maybe you are right that they shouldn't take a stance at all.

But if not, if they strongly believe that something is not in the best interests of their constituents, they should have a venue to voice that. Do you think that if the SRA HADN'T taken a 'No' stance, that some of their very valid points would even have come forward? We all know now that the 'Yes' side of the campaign not only did not play by the rules they agreed to, but they did it in a way that was insulting and downright abusive. Is it fair to students that if THAT is the only voice they hear on the issue, that THAT is what they base their response to a referendum on? (Sorry for all the 'that's)

Perhaps a compromise might be that the SRA is allowed to take a stance, but not under the SRA banner. Either way, I don't think it is fair to students to take away the SRA's voice on something that directly affects students. For what it's worth, I think the SRA SHOULD be allowed to take a stance. They had many valid points that I hadn't even considered, and I consider myself smart enough to make a decision on my own. I think students should know that their Student Representatives are looking out for their best interests.

The SRA didn't hold people's hands as the placed a checkmark in the 'Yes' or 'No' box. If people are going to say that they are smart enough to make a decision on their own, then make it! I don't see why they should have a problem with the SRA taking a stance in the first place. No one's forcing you to agree with them.

At the same time, not to belabour the point (thank you, Katie Couric), but there should be a clearer definition of what the purpose of a referendum is. It is completely unfair to place students who are asking for money to fund research projects that benefit the McMaster community and an external company looking to make some easy cash on the same footing. It illegitimizes the entire process and takes away from those students with genuine intentions.

If you want to question the SRA's ability to take a stance, fine. But let's not forget those students who use the referendum procedure for genuine reasons, rather than to line their own pockets.

Did NO ONE check out Daily Puppy.com?!!?!