lol welcome to mac. where bell curving is a fantasy.

One of my profs bellcurved a test once.
Like, a lot of profs change the average by just adding x marks to everyone's test. But one my profs actually bellcurved.

I didn't like it since I got 70 on the first test and 90 on the second. And only the second one was curved. My mark went up by only 3. Whereas people who got 65 got an extra 10, peole who got lower received even more marks. I think if you got 10% the mark after curving was like 30%.

Adding x marks to everyone's grade is fair to all.

tl;dr like like like like like

Originally Posted by Taunton

Curved grades aren't a mystery - if it's being done, the professor will tell you. Often, in the states, a professor will tell you what mark set the curve, etc. So, if it is being done, you will know it... it's never "I wonder if they will curve the grades". Curving isn't done after the fact, it's almost always done ahead of time. Here is a wikipedia article listing the GPA curves for various US law schools (note that the explanation on curved grading is wrong in this article, and doesn't match up with the actual 'grading on a curve' article) It's so well known that you will be graded on a curve ahead of time that you can look up what the average mark will be! This doesn't exist at McMaster, and if the occaisonal professor grades on a curve, I feel like it would be well known.

What I'm trying to do is explain exactly what grading on a curve is because people don't seem to know what it means. Just know that true bell-curving doesn't really happen in Canada, and if people think it's happening, they're probably wrong. Not that your boyfriend is necessarily wrong, but in my experience on the subject, most people don't realize what they're talking about. What's laughable is that most people think that curved grading will automatically increase their grade - chances are it won't.

The only person who can change your marks is your professor. Don't get your hopes up, because professors are supposed to target a certain class average (usually around 65%), and if your tutorial helps keep the class average down, then he/she won't have a problem keeping it there.

Damn, that sucks. I thought there was some protocol for if one TA marks super harder than others. That's unfortunate.

I've been in my boyfriend's lectures a few times when the prof has said "I'm going to bell curve because of this test" or something like that. I don't know HOW often it happens, but the profs have definately said it a few times.

okay "bell curving" does not happen at mac. Its against school policy. Instead they do adjustments so the average in the end is better that means usually taking off a few questions, or adding marks....

Originally Posted by Infinity

okay "bell curving" does not happen at mac. Its against school policy.

While I know that courses are not generally graded on a curve here, I can't find anywhere in McMaster's policies that curved grading is not allowed? Can you show me where that is?

Summary:

- Mac is not legally allowed to lower any student's grade.
- "Bell curves" as in those transformations which preserve or create a normal distribution, lower students' grades who scored well
- Therefore, Mac can't use a "Bell curve" in the conventional sense.


But now before we all blow a semantics gasket (I'm a bit surprised it's been such a big deal since 'bell-curve' is more of a slang word than a scientific term these days), there are several ways to attack the problem of 'poor results.'

One being shifting the weighting of the test/exam which was performed poorly. ie. If it was originally worth 60%, then perhaps it will drop to 30% and the 30% is transferred to other forms of evaluation (assignments, other tests, etc.)

Another being a 'maximum' of two grading schemes (or the 'maximum' of your original mark and a bellcurve), since this does not 'lower' any students' marks.

I've been exposed to two types of 'bell-curves' (ie. the slang word, not the literal normal distribution-preserving transform) in my years at Mac.

1) "Football" distance - Each student is given half of their distance to 100% (or the 'endzone') up to a maximum of like 5 marks or something like that (depending on what the test is out of). This means the students who scored well may only receive a bonus of .5% or nothing if they got perfect. (A student's mark will never drop with this method)

2) "Mobius transformations" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6...ansform ation). Big fancy transformation used by math people because it's more inclusive than a standard bell-curve. We think of the grades as sitting inside the complex numbers, perform a mobius transformation (specifically a 'dilitation'), take the modulus of the new complex number, and project onto the Real axis. (A student's mark would never drop using this method).

^ #2 sounds so freakin' complicated, I would think that any non pure mathematics professor would just lower the denominator and be done with it, not that the Mobius transformation doesn't sound like an interesting idea.

Originally Posted by Kathy2

Damn, that sucks. I thought there was some protocol for if one TA marks super harder than others.

There is: You can get your stuff regraded. (:

But if you don't get a difference of at least a grade point (ie. you got 60%, and your regrade shows 65%) then you'll have to pay a $20 administration fee or something like that.


---------------

The theory behind a mobius transformation is probably more involved than a bell-curve, or shift...but a formula is just a formula, you could program Excel to do the mobius transformation for you!

Originally Posted by Taunton

While I know that courses are not generally graded on a curve here, I can't find anywhere in McMaster's policies that curved grading is not allowed? Can you show me where that is?

what mowicz says. I'm not sure where it was but it was mentioned by some one before.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

There is: You can get your stuff regraded. (:

But if you don't get a difference of at least a grade point (ie. you got 60%, and your regrade shows 65%) then you'll have to pay a $20 administration fee or something like that.

I did get it regraded by the prof. I received a slightly higher mark, but still not what I think it deserves. The prof basically told me "All TAs mark differently, and you need to respect that".

There were a lot of complaints about my TA's marking though, that's why I'm hopeful that something will be changed.

I'm not sure I see the problem then...I mean, you got a second opinion, and you're clearly not complaining about the professor's grading...?

We had our midterm mark adjusted by 2.5 marks this year for the midterm in COMP ENG 2SH4. I think they just adjust marks, not bellcurve.

Originally Posted by Mowicz

I'm not sure I see the problem then...I mean, you got a second opinion, and you're clearly not complaining about the professor's grading...?

I think the mark I received from my prof was lower than what I think I should've gotten because the prof said I need to "respect" that some TAs mark harder. My guess is, the prof read my paper, saw my mark and thought "The TA gve her this mark, so she obviously deserves it for some reason." I don't know..
I receive three full letter grades higher in every other course and every other assignment, so I'm just finding it hard to believe the mark I got is what I deserve.

I don't think it's a big enough deal to go to the department or anything, so I'm just hoping something will be done to the entire tutorial's marks.

You've got to give the prof more credit...I mean it's very possible that you're correct and the prof had a biased opinion of your paper...but whenever I hear a prof say 'you have to respect that TA's grade differently' it is more intended as a 'don't feel bad about this mark' comment (as opposed to a 'I can't do anything about this' comment).

Originally Posted by Mowicz

You've got to give the prof more credit...I mean it's very possible that you're correct and the prof had a biased opinion of your paper...but whenever I hear a prof say 'you have to respect that TA's grade differently' it is more intended as a 'don't feel bad about this mark' comment (as opposed to a 'I can't do anything about this' comment).

Maybe. I'm just unsettled because I know how well I do in my other classes and it just doesn't make sense that I'd do so bad in this one.