Can anyone who just finished 2nd year of Biochem tell me a little about how you found the program, in terms of:
- Workload/difficulty of the required courses
- Amount of sleep deprivation encountered
- And just generally how you found the program.

Cheers, Philipp

Well I just finished my final year. It is a bit of work honestly. Second year actually isn't too bad, I'm sure you won't be deprived of sleep. I've managed to maintain a more than adequate social life throughout my 4 years.

2nd year is pretty fun actually, 2L06 is a pretty cool course where you basically run through a research project starting from PCR amplification of a gene, inserting it into a plasmid, expression in E. Coli, and finally assaying your enzyme. Its a full year course for work that normally would be done in a lab in 2-4 months, but its a pretty good foundation that teaches you basically all the skills you'll be needing in any lab you work in. Its pretty fun too, but there's lots of write-ups and stuff. If you stay on top of it though, you'll get your sleep in.

The other courses aren't too bad, its not like you're smacked in the face when you enter 2nd year. 3rd year for me was honestly a bit tough, mostly first semester since there was analytical and bio-organic chemistry, 3O03 (like 2L06 but a bit more intense), and whatever other courses that were all only first semester so it was a bit tough. But hey, I'm still alive, my fourth year marks were the highest of any semester so far so there's that to look forward to.

If you want to do a thesis, which you probably should because I find it weird that people can graduate from biochem without ever working in a lab, then take a specialization. Its honestly not that much harder.

Anyways, good luck, biochem is an awesome program. Get out to the events the society puts on as well, meet your colleagues, you literally have almost every class with them, especially if you're in a specialization.

biochem courses were my highest marks in 2nd year. 2L06, 2BB3 were especially fun. 2B03 is more memorizing/bleh kind of course, but all of the material has come up again in other courses (it's the nitty gritty basics that you just gotta know type of thing).

all my biochem friends hated the biophysical chemistry course (2P03) but the evaluation is extremely forgiving to the point where people got 50s on multiple midterms and still ended up with a 9/10/11 cuz of one good midterm / exam section.

i also don't think you NEED to be in a specialization to do a thesis, felicia said that you can ask for permission if you are in the core program which might be better if you want to avoid some of the required 3rd or 4th year stuff

if you take orgo in the summer and replace orgo from the regular year to easier courses, i cant imagine it being hard at all.

The most difficult courses for me were organic chemistry and physical chemistry because phys chem basically made no sense and going to class was a waste of time since i'd just end up falling asleep. In the end, i did okay, probably because everyone had no idea what they were doing too.. and got bellcurved most likely.

Though there is a lot of work due to the orgo labs every other week and the biochem lab every week, you get to learn a lot and it's definitely good lab experience.

You lose the most sleep when your papers are due since they make up most of your mark for biochem 2L06 and for biochem 2bb3. If you take orgo during the summer you probably won't lose that much sleep during exams and miterms.

Overall, I love this program! Though you have to work hard, it's worth it

Originally Posted by yoni

i also don't think you NEED to be in a specialization to do a thesis, felicia said that you can ask for permission if you are in the core program which might be better if you want to avoid some of the required 3rd or 4th year stuff

This is true, but they typically make sure everyone in specializations has a supervisor for their thesis first (since it's required for their degrees) before giving permission to core students, so you would end up getting "last pick" if you're not in a specialization.

Originally Posted by nerual

This is true, but they typically make sure everyone in specializations has a supervisor for their thesis first (since it's required for their degrees) before giving permission to core students, so you would end up getting "last pick" if you're not in a specialization.

If it works the same way as my program then yes they will make sure you get a supervisor if you are having difficulty, but you can find a supervisor on your own as well. So even if you don't require a thesis for your degree you can still get a supervisor on your own and register for the course.

So you wouldn't get a "last pick" if you find your own supervisor, but if you need help from the department in finding one then they'll definitely accommodate students who require a thesis first.

Originally Posted by jhan523

If it works the same way as my program then yes they will make sure you get a supervisor if you are having difficulty, but you can find a supervisor on your own as well. So even if you don't require a thesis for your degree you can still get a supervisor on your own and register for the course.

So you wouldn't get a "last pick" if you find your own supervisor, but if you need help from the department in finding one then they'll definitely accommodate students who require a thesis first.

It doesn't work the same as your program. There's the specializations, which require a thesis and therefore the department will make sure they get a supervisor, but I was talking about core biochem. They do not require a thesis and have to get permission to do one, and that permission is not typically granted until they make sure all the students in specializations (who DO require a thesis) have supervisors. Thus, people in core tend to get last pick if they do a thesis. This isn't always the case (there are exceptions where students find a supervisor early before getting permission, which is a bit risky for the prof), but it tends to be.

Originally Posted by Silver

if you take orgo in the summer and replace orgo from the regular year to easier courses, i cant imagine it being hard at all.

Yeah, im actually in Orgo right now, but im only taking 2OA3 during the summer, so I am a little worried that taking 20B3 during the year will end up causing some problems.

Regarding the thesis thing, I emailed Dr. MacDonald and found out that it's no problem to do a thesis if you are just in the core program

The problem I have with biochem though is just hearing from multiple people about how difficult it is, but I feel like my other option (going into Bio) is more based on the fact that there is a lot of room to take some easier courses to lighten the load. I really like the bio stuff, and managed to do well in both intro chem courses which is why I have decided to really look into biochem, I think 2l06 would also be a good thing, as you guys said to learn how to function properly in the lab. I am just afraid (for no good reason really) that my GPA will somehow manage to hit the fan and my life be in shambles... Drama

Originally Posted by Philipp31

Regarding the thesis thing, I emailed Dr. MacDonald and found out that it's no problem to do a thesis if you are just in the core program

The problem I have with biochem though is just hearing from multiple people about how difficult it is, but I feel like my other option (going into Bio) is more based on the fact that there is a lot of room to take some easier courses to lighten the load. I really like the bio stuff, and managed to do well in both intro chem courses which is why I have decided to really look into biochem, I think 2l06 would also be a good thing, as you guys said to learn how to function properly in the lab. I am just afraid (for no good reason really) that my GPA will somehow manage to hit the fan and my life be in shambles... Drama

You can do a thesis...you might just not get the prof(s) you want. I had a few friends in core who ran into this problem, and decided it wasn't worth it to do a thesis in something they weren't interested in if they weren't planning on going to grad school anyways.

I think you should at least try biochem...it's easier to switch from biochem to bio then to do the opposite.

Originally Posted by nerual

It doesn't work the same as your program. There's the specializations, which require a thesis and therefore the department will make sure they get a supervisor, but I was talking about core biochem. They do not require a thesis and have to get permission to do one, and that permission is not typically granted until they make sure all the students in specializations (who DO require a thesis) have supervisors. Thus, people in core tend to get last pick if they do a thesis. This isn't always the case (there are exceptions where students find a supervisor early before getting permission, which is a bit risky for the prof), but it tends to be.

Weird, I wonder how my friend got a biochem professor as his supervisor...

Originally Posted by jhan523

Weird, I wonder how my friend got a biochem professor as his supervisor...

Your friend wouldn't have needed the biochem department's permission to do a thesis if he/she isn't in biochem. Some profs also span multiple departments...like, they're primarily one, but also joined with others.

Originally Posted by nerual

Your friend wouldn't have needed the biochem department's permission to do a thesis if he/she isn't in biochem. Some profs also span multiple departments...like, they're primarily one, but also joined with others.

Yeah, but if my friend was able to get a biochem supervisor I would expect non-specialized biochem students to be able to get one equally as easy. I personally don't understand why they don't grant permission to them until all the specialized biochem students get it. I mean, getting a supervisor should be mainly the student's responsibility and there shouldn't be a shortage of supervisors in the biochem department (spanning other departments or not) if non-biochem students can get biochem supervisors. But anyways, I guess it doesn't matter and it's just the way it is.

Originally Posted by jhan523

Yeah, but if my friend was able to get a biochem supervisor I would expect non-specialized biochem students to be able to get one equally as easy. I personally don't understand why they don't grant permission to them until all the specialized biochem students get it. I mean, getting a supervisor should be mainly the student's responsibility and there shouldn't be a shortage of supervisors in the biochem department (spanning other departments or not) if non-biochem students can get biochem supervisors. But anyways, I guess it doesn't matter and it's just the way it is.

Yeah, I think the problem is waiting to get permission before getting a prof--if you start looking for a prof late (regardless of your program) it is going to be more difficult. It does kind of suck for core biochem, though. If a lot of people have issues with it they'll probably look in to changing it somehow...their department is pretty good with things like that.

Originally Posted by Philipp31

Yeah, im actually in Orgo right now, but im only taking 2OA3 during the summer, so I am a little worried that taking 20B3 during the year will end up causing some problems.

i still bet you will be fine. lots of students will be dealing with a heavier workload in 2nd year. if you ever are going through a stressful time with lots of work needing to be completed, just think of the chembio kids