Hi James and community,

First of all James, thanks for your feedback. Looking into the ban on your other account in particular: your posts in a particular thread accumulated infractions in quick succession which caused the ban. History of past infractions do get taken into consideration when a ban is a possibility, the system takes into account this when giving a timed ban or permanent ban which is what it gave.

I have reversed the infractions so that the ban has been lifted for your Twelve Chars account. That being said, had you simply emailed [email protected] om to make your case to have the ban lifted rather than going about it in a thread like this, I would have reversed the ban to give your account yet another chance. Having two accounts is in itself not allowed and reason for one account to be closed, if you do decide to come back to MacInsiders and participate I would suggest we decide on which account you want to post from and close the other. If you have any questions we can discuss the banning infractions offline outside of this thread and I'll clarify anything you are unsure about.

As for this thread, I will say that I am glad you started this thread so that we can discuss ways to improve the community, the moderation processes, and make it an enjoyable environment where you feel free to post, share, and discuss.

I'll answer all concerns posted here one by one, so please reply with your feedback and responses and I'll do my best to give answers. Also, I would be more than happy to brainstorm ideas for actions we can do to improve the community and can work out an action plan for that.

Responses I'll do in separate replies below...

Originally Posted by Abid.Hasan

I've expressed my distaste for this forum and its moderators in the past, but I just wanted to say it one last time: This forum is awful. The moderators are way too strict, deleting posts, deleting threads, locking threads, banning members, generally maintaining an environment that is not conducive to natural, interesting, or fun conversation. The evidence is the forum itself, what is it at now, 3 or 4 posts per day in General Discussion? Not my definition of a healthy, living community.

We're always looking for ways to make the community better, and be transparent with the users on how things work and the processes in place. Any ideas to help make the forums a more 'healthy, living community' I definitely would love to hear. We get on average 60-120 new posts each day. True, there aren't as many new threads in the "General Discussion" as there has been in the past, but the other forums are alive and well. I'd love to brainstorm ideas to increase the General Discussion / 'off-topic' discussion that takes place in the forums and make them more fun to read and share in. I've brought focus to the Arcade to make things 'fun' on the site, brought back the Daily Game postings.

Maybe we can bring on some 'Content Staff' that can have the sole role of finding interesting news and funny topics to talk about in the general forum? Of course, the focus of the site is on Mac.. we aren't a TMZ site... so need to keep that in mind. But I'm always happy to read interesting fun thread topics that have nothing to do with Mac but interest students! How can we improve that? Please suggest. Thanks!

A thread was started a while back talking about moderation being too strict (I'd have to look it up, it was back in early 2012 I believe), and after that thread new moderator guidelines were put in place on 04-24-2012 with a new 'Watch. Warn. Act.' procedure. Anyone that would like to see a copy of it I can send it or post it. The process basically cut down on acting immediately on items that were not blatant violations of our Code Of Conduct giving the user a chance to clarify, and giving warnings verbally in threads rather than infractions right away. Threads were to be deleted far less in minor infractions instances. We also reduced the actual types of infractions that could be given out.

Also, the Code Of Conduct which was introduced in 2009, has been changed over the years from it's original incarnation. It was modified last year to be looser in scope, allowing for profanity in the forum. Censors for words like 'fuck' were removed.

Since then, looking at the recent logs from past few months the infractions have been given mainly for spam or people posting marketplace items (selling things, off-campus housing, etc) in the wrong forum and not in the marketplace forums.

If any user has been given an infraction or had their post deleted and they think it was done on a baseless reason then PM me and we'll look at it on a case-by-case basis.

Any changes you would like to see to the Code Of Conduct or way the site is moderated, post in this thread and we'll address them.

I can say that I personally believe the Code Of Conduct we currently have doesn't stop 'natural, interesting, or fun conversation'... it enhances it by taking away spam, comments attacking other users, etc. Not sure how leaving those in can be seen as fun or interesting.

Originally Posted by Abid.Hasan

I've talked to some of the moderators and they are mostly apologists, humming and hawing and wringing their hands about the matter. It mostly comes down to Chad, the creator, owner, and admin of this site, who is the worst. (All my previous infractions, and probably this ban, have come from him)

The amount of infractions I personally have given out has been minimal in the past 12 months. I have logs which I would be happy to show you. In the past 14 months (2012 and 2013) there has been a total of 475 infractions given by moderators. 39 of those were from myself. And the majority of those were for spam and duplicate threads.

Your particular infractions were given by me, and were given for specific reasons which you are aware of. I won't mention them publicly here as discussing your personal situation publicly in a thread like this is not how we do things. But I will say all 5 infractions you deserved. So while I might be the 'worst' at letting things slide when it comes to you breaking rules, it doesn't excuse any of it in my opinion. As a moderator I am doing my job. Break the rules and expect moderation. If you want things to change, then suggest improvements or changes to the Code Of Conduct and as a community we can discuss them and implement what is best for the community.

Originally Posted by Abid.Hasan

So let this be my final goodbye to an already dead community, we had some good times didn't we? We did though, and that's the worst part. Because at times, in years past, we did have some good threads and discussions, with some good posters who have long since stopped visiting. I know a part of that is because those people have since graduated, but don't you think that if this forum was good enough, they would've stuck around as alumni posters?

I can't speak for those who have graduated and moved on from the site, but it doesn't mean they didn't find value in the community. We have many testimonials and praises from 'Alumni users' who absolutely love the site but they change cities or move on and have told me they wish they had something like MacInsiders in their new university/location. We do have many alumni posters, we even have alumni staff members still moderating the site after they've long left McMaster. I think expecting students who have graduated to continue daily posting to the site is unrealistic. While some power users might have moved on, we look to attract new users to fill their place and build up a reputation in the forums. Maybe the problem is that we haven't achieved that this year with bringing in enough 'personalities' in the forum to keep you happy. If that is the case, then I'm all ears to hear solutions and ideas on how we can attract and bring in those type of users that you would like to see more of in the forums.

Originally Posted by Entropy

While I understand the need for some degree of moderation, I can't help but agree it's drained this place of its personality. The issue lies is trying to define the line between an offensive troll and an entertaining one-- because the site has switched (or was it always this way?) to a stance that appeases to the masses, anything that can be considered offensive to anybody is moderated. Thankfully, I've managed to adapt more subtle ways of offending people, but I know that if Chat weren't a feature here I probably wouldn't bother coming around.

I agree with you, it comes down to that fine line between what is blatantly offensive or 'attacking', and what isn't (sarcastic, jokes, etc). There have been times when someone has said something awful about another user in a thread and later we learn that it was an 'inside joke' and that the user was fine with being called that by the user. It comes down to interpretation of the moderator and they go by what they feel is the best sense of judgement for the situation.

The alternative would be to not moderate any trolling, offensive, attacking comments and leave it up to the community to report the post to 'hide' it, yet leave it undeleted. The problem with this is that we've had users reporting posts very upset with what was said about them and wanting it removed, and on the other side of things had users that haven't reported as single post and try to ignore the 'trolls' and attacking comments directed at them but eventually it gets to them and they make the decision to leave the site completely and deactivate their account because of posts bullying them over time. It's situations like this where I personally think it's great to have a moderator step in and helps the users that are too shy or afraid to report things, and take the appropriate measures against users who are bullying - on behalf of the user being bullied.

But then we can look at examples like Facebook and YouTube where things aren't moderated per-say, and are completely 'community-policed'. There's pros and cons, looking at YouTube videos sometimes I see both ends of the spectrum and it makes me glad that we have moderators here. It comes down to the user's taste of what they prefer and the level of moderation. But if that is something you think would be a better alternative to what we have right now then we can always consider trying it.

Originally Posted by Entropy

But even though I agree with James's opinion, I don't think that calling out the site's creator like this is the best way to present it. You'll get his (and everyone else's) attention, but at the cost of having the thread stifled as soon as someone who doesn't like it sees it.

To mods: perhaps instead of deleting this thread, you could change the topic title as you see fit and use it to take ideas of how to improve the site?

Trolls aren't necessarily bad if they can facilitate some discussion.

I'll be honest, I enjoy entertaining posts and some trolls we've had in the past have been hilarious and we've let them continue posting on the site completely untouched because they made us all laugh. I don't see anything wrong with that, the forums are meant to be fun and enjoyable to read. I'd like to see more of that just as you would.

Originally Posted by eddiemurphy

isnt chad like 30 or something\/?

Originally Posted by Leeoku

Chad is a Mac Alumni. I believe Macinsiders was a project he created.

I'm not 30 lol. Not sure what difference age makes, but thanks for posting and for being a MacInsiders member! I graduated from McMaster in 2009, and started MacInsiders in 2006-07 as a student club and continue to manage the site under my company Fullerton Media. I have an amazing staff team that work with me to keep the site running smoothly. We run annual "MacInsiders Social" events for members to meet up. Next one will be coming up later this year I continue to give back to the McMaster community and help students because I enjoy doing it and think McMaster students deserve the best support and community network that I wish I had when I started at Mac.

Originally Posted by Chris23

Worst is having posts taken down for pointing out other peoples stupidity or ignorance in previous posts. This forum just takes one *hope i dont get moderated for this* bitch to cry that they've been offended, and posts get deleted, accounts get banned, etc. For all of you out there complaining about trolling and "flame baiting", which btw is the most ridiculous term ive ever heard, WE MAKE THESE POSTS FUN. If youre too sensitive to take a joke here or there, you might want to exit your browser right now, because the internet is FULL OF THEM.
Gonna miss ya 12 chars.
Oh and btw, the threads being posted on here of late (as stated previously, only a couple a day anymore) are dull, and ask questions that would take one click on google to find your answers. Stop asking questions you can easily get the answers to, and make this place fun like it used to be, before the entire forum dies out

Thanks for the feedback Chris23. I agree, removing posts for pointing out other's mistakes or ignorance shouldn't be deleted, you're pointing out something to make a point. I suppose it all comes down to how it's worded. Just as an example, replying to someone saying "You're a dumb crying bitch... go search on Google" doesn't necessarily help add to the discussion nor is a funny joke making the post 'fun' in my opinion. Would you agree with that? What would you like to see happen if a user posts things like that?

Threads asking questions that have answers which can easily be found by searching Google have been seen on MacInsiders ever since the site launched 6 years ago lol. Honestly, it's something that has always been happening. It's what happens in our forums, on dozens of Facebook groups, all over the Internet. Doesn't necessarily mean the question is bad, they obviously have something they are concerned about and need help with and I welcome them to use our community to find answers... sometimes there might be a simple answer, but the thread will have lots of replies from users commenting on their own experiences with the problem, adding a personal touch or stories to the thread that you normally wouldn't find on a basic McMaster site search. We do try and separate the two forums so questions stay in the 'academics' or 'first year questions' forums... while the less 'dull' discussions go in the General Discussion forum and all the subforums (tech, movies, etc).

So I don't think necessarily blaming the Q&A type threads for making the site dull and boring would be correct, those have always existed. The problem I'm seeing is that we're seeing less fun and entertaining threads being started in the General forum or the non-academic forums. And I would love to brainstorm ideas on how to improve that and increase the 'off-topic' discussion happening in the forums to make them a fun place to check every day for interesting discussion Any ideas? Like I said in response to James, maybe we can bring on some 'Content Staff' that can have the sole role of finding interesting news and funny topics to talk about in the general forum?

"You're a dumb crying bitch... go search on Google" doesn't necessarily help add to the discussion.

This is why we have the downvote thingy here as well, so that this reply is hidden automatically.

I wish our thread structure was more like reddit though.

Originally Posted by Afzal

This is why we have the downvote thingy here as well, so that this reply is hidden automatically.

I wish our thread structure was more like reddit though.

Oh God, Reddit's thread structure is a disaster and a half. I prefer linearity-- nested structures tend to lead to too many off-topic discussions and comments, which I suppose works well for something like Reddit, but aren't as easy on the eyes (to me, at least).

At Chad: Have you considered setting up an FAQ/sticky thread to answer common questions? A lot of things could probably be answered with "We can't help you, refer to your academic advisor" or "You can submit your MSAF anytime within five days of your missed assignments"-- maybe even gather all faculties' contact info and have it there for reference.

Also, on a completely unrelated note: can we have the option to

a) turn off PMs every time someone beats our Arcade high scores, and b) have a link to the game where our score was beaten in them in the PMs?

Originally Posted by Entropy

Oh God, Reddit's thread structure is a disaster and a half. I prefer linearity-- nested structures tend to lead to too many off-topic discussions and comments, which I suppose works well for something like Reddit, but aren't as easy on the eyes (to me, at least).

At Chad: Have you considered setting up an FAQ/sticky thread to answer common questions? A lot of things could probably be answered with "We can't help you, refer to your academic advisor" or "You can submit your MSAF anytime within five days of your missed assignments"-- maybe even gather all faculties' contact info and have it there for reference.

Also, on a completely unrelated note: can we have the option to

a) turn off PMs every time someone beats our Arcade high scores, and b) have a link to the game where our score was beaten in them in the PMs?

agreed

Originally Posted by Entropy

Oh God, Reddit's thread structure is a disaster and a half. I prefer linearity-- nested structures tend to lead to too many off-topic discussions and comments, which I suppose works well for something like Reddit, but aren't as easy on the eyes (to me, at least).

At that time, what I meant was the upvote/downvote thing so that the crappy posts are hidden somewhere.

I wouldn't actually mind a Threaded-expanded mode, not like the hybrid mode though.

i'm in first year so i was introduced to macinsiders this year and to be honest i like it so far.
i'm not sure why there are some negative comments. to me it seems clear, if you are disrespectful and insulting another person, obviously that's rude and its fair if you get voted down, or a warning or infraction or w.e
so far my experience has been a great one, the only not so good thing is that i want a coloured name and i can't get it because it costs 10000 points !! Chad that is too much :( i'v been stuck with low points from beginning of the year even though i post threads and comments. i know this is silly but i really want a coloured name ^_^ ! helps please ?

^i just bought the coloured username and it just randomly disappeared right after I bought it >_< omggggggggggggggggggg

Originally Posted by Silver

^i just bought the coloured username and it just randomly disappeared right after I bought it >_< omggggggggggggggggggg

whaaat o.O! really ?
that sucks :/ maybe you should pm a moderator

Originally Posted by Ponyo

i'm in first year so i was introduced to macinsiders this year and to be honest i like it so far.
i'm not sure why there are some negative comments. to me it seems clear, if you are disrespectful and insulting another person, obviously that's rude and its fair if you get voted down, or a warning or infraction or w.e
so far my experience has been a great one, the only not so good thing is that i want a coloured name and i can't get it because it costs 10000 points !! Chad that is too much :( i'v been stuck with low points from beginning of the year even though i post threads and comments. i know this is silly but i really want a coloured name ^_^ ! helps please ?

Put the points in the bank But here, I'll send you some.

Originally Posted by Afzal

Put the points in the bank But here, I'll send you some.

what happens if i put them in the bank ? do they increase b/c i did that and nothing happened.
and you dont have to :O omg that's so nice of you :')

Originally Posted by Afzal

Decent enough to offend you

Who said I was offended? Mom jokes are quite lame and frankly, very old. Be creative next time.