Originally Posted by Commander

By engineer I obviously mean the profession. I know my vocabulary and there is one definition for it. Plus not anyone can get a degree in Engineering, it takes computation skills that a lot of people find boring, and rightly so.

Yes, I suppose you're right.

Originally Posted by Kendoon

rejected troll speaks the truth

What the hell do you know about Eng ? Dumbass...

Only Engineering students should be posting here so gtfo...

Originally Posted by Commander

By engineer I obviously mean the profession. I know my vocabulary and there is one definition for it. Plus not anyone can get a degree in Engineering, it takes math skills that a lot of people lack.

Difficulty in engineering is overrated and people can learn math just like any other subject. All you need is proper time management.

Originally Posted by funkdmonkey

Difficulty in engineering is overrated and people can learn math just like any other subject. All you need is proper time management.

It's the only professional program at Mac, the most funded and a bigger % of eng students don't make it into second if you compared it to other faculty.

No not everyone can learn math. I have seen people who can't do basic highschool math and some of them try extremely hard. In HS, I did not even study once (except reading Eagle has landed cuz its about WW2) and did few homework. And I still got highest mark in math and physics. And I have seen that marks of others were very low even if they were trying their ass off.

Now that doesn't mean that they are done for life. Some people can work in music industry, people have different talents.

No, not everyone can learn math. That's a fact...

Originally Posted by Commander

It's the only professional program at Mac, the most funded and a bigger % of eng students don't make it into second if you compared it to other faculty.

No not everyone can learn math. I have seen people who can't do basic highschool math and some of them try extremely hard. In HS, I did not even study once (except reading Eagle has landed cuz its about WW2) and did few homework. And I still got highest mark in math and physics. And I have seen that marks of others were very low even if they were trying their ass off.

Now that doesn't mean that they are done for life. Some people can work in music industry, people have different talents.

No, not everyone can learn math. That's a fact...

The people who can't do math well have an inclination to get overwhelmed by its "supposed" complexity from what I have seen over the years. I've seen people in highschool that seemed like they were dumb as bricks, couldn't do fractions by grade 12 and they could spend hours looking over math and not absorb anything. These people had a fear of math and had preconceived notions that they'll never figure it out. I've seen the same people get private tutors or swallow their pride and go somewhere like Sylvan and manage to get a good grasp on math and be able to learn it just fine. Once these people realized that math is just a systematic process where you have to go through a couple simple checks and steps, they were set. Of course if someone is not interested in math or doesnt see the benefit in it, then it wouldn't be a surprise if they don't put the effort in it and do poorly.

I recall in first year the engineers were struggling with a certain topic in math and were going batshit crazy. The courseware was useless and the prof didnt do an adequate job of explaining. However, at a review session before the test, a certain TA explained it very thoroughly and showed us how to do these set of problems by going through a very simple process, all while using very simple wording and examples. Going in, all the engineers thought the stuff was impossible but we all realized afterwords how completely trivial it was if you just look at it right and follow certain set of steps. If everyone had access to a TA like that, they would conquer math easily.

Even upper year engineers who are good at math still get overwhelmed all the time. They panic when they first have to solve boundary problems using laplace or fourier transforms. Throw in complex numbers or different coordinates systems and their brains will implode. Again, once they break it into simple steps even a 2page problem becomes simple and methodical.

All the engineers I know did a good job of learning math when they were young and it just stuck. Highschool is a bad representation of marks and it gives a lot of engineers a bad sense of confidence especially in math. Essentially all engineers end up getting around a 85+ in highschool but when they come to uni, their averages were all in the 45s. In 2nd term math, the average only went up to around 65. I believe this year they split the 2 math courses into 3 to make it easier, so hopefully the averages are higher. The same low averages could be found in chem and ESPECIALLY physics, showing again how easy highschool is and how poorly it translates. Also, a lot of engineers dont fail and drop out towards second year, they simply change programs. A lot of people get turned off by the theoretical and technical nature of it all.

Engineering is overrated and it gets increasingly tiring to see more and more with superiority complexes.

I don't think you're understanding what I am trying to say... And by not everyone can learn math, I am right on that. I did mention "everyone" meaning, every single person on this planet. And I only mention who they are in prayers.

NOT EVERYONE CAN BECOME ENGINEERS. That's how life is and it's good for Society.

Why is it good for Society ? Any society in that matter...

Because, you can't have everyone doing the same thing. For example, imagine a society with everyone being doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors, teachers and working as professionals...

It's going to be a disaster. Nothing is going to get done. We need construction workers, McDonald guys and so on..

That's one of the reason why every can't be an engineer or a doctor. Now, I don't think I can be a doctor. I think I can become an engineer, but I am using the verb "think" to show that I have some uncertainty on this matter. Furthermore, I am certain I won't become a musician or an actor.

I am not saying if you're not studying engineering than you're dumb. However, Engineering AND Sciences is not for everyone. Just like sining, acting, working with hands ain't for everyone.

While I agree with "everyone can't do math", I don't agree in the case that of, the math you'd encounter in science & engineering. There isn't anything 'undoable' about that sort of math - it's just slogging away at computations, anyone can do it if they practice enough. Now, for more abstract math, I do agree - the nature of math in this sense is very different from the calculus/differential equations/matrix algebra/Fourier series/etc. stuff ('computation') that engineers do, in that it's not about method.

The impression of math to someone who isn't in it (so, everyone except math students, stats students, some physics and philosophy students, etc.) is very different than it is to someone who is in it - this can be said about any field, but it's particularly true for mathematics.

So, if by math you mean 'computation', then everyone can do it if they put the time and effort in. If you mean 'abstract math', then no, I don't think it's for everyone. In fact, I wouldn't think that an engineering student would be any better prepared for work in "pure" mathematics than a philosophy student would.

Also, it's pretty evident that high-school marks are an awful representation of actual understanding, and nowhere is this more true than in mathematics. High-school math was basically an exercise of memory-work and arithmetic, which doesn't bear any resemblance at all to the overwhelming majority of academic mathematics.