Originally Posted by Nucleus

Damn, I was planning to do Software Engineering but now I'm going to have to choose another engineering stream after hearing all this negative feedback about SE at Mac. :(
Now I regret choosing Mac over Waterloo..

SE is SE. Employers look at work experience and rarely the school. Its all about what you do outside of class. interested in mobile development?
-Android Dev is free and on every platform (Win, Linux, Mac) via Eclipse and the ADT
-iOS Dev requires a Mac or Hackintosh + $$
-Win Dev (phone or comp) pretty much requires Windows and Visual Studio. With you macID you can get VS2012 from dreamspark for free
-There are also great books and internet tutorials.

Also Look into Java, python (for first year), and c++ as these are core programming languages.

Do not regret mac for SE. SE, unlike any other program requires far more effort and experience than you could gain at school. The school itself does not matter much to someone who actually has enough interest to code outside of class.

So what exactly do they teach in SE at mac if they dont really teach much coding (as ive heard)? Is it just all theoretical math and logic classes :/? Does this actually help you become a better software engineer/ programmer?

Originally Posted by Arka

So what exactly do they teach in SE at mac if they dont really teach much coding (as ive heard)? Is it just all theoretical math and logic classes :/? Does this actually help you become a better software engineer/ programmer?

Second year:

- Digital logic and FPGAs. I TA'd this course last year. It's decent.
- Discrete mathematics.
- Imperative programming (was functional also when I took it)
- Algorithms/Data structures
- General engineering math courses on differential equations.
- Control systems

Third year:

- Mathematical computation (how your computer does hard math problems)
- Computer architecture
- Low level programming (assembler)
- Software requirements/security (security is not emphasized)
- Stats
- Control systems
- How to do interviews and write decently
- Software testing (very poorly done course)
- Software concurrency

Fourth year

- Real time systems/control systems
- Capstone project
- Human interface design (terribly done course)
- Computer networking/security
- Databases

So in the end, the majority of courses are geared towards control systems and software design. I'm pretty sure the time investment into control systems that McMaster does for software engineering is a lot greater than other schools. It's likely because many of the professors here worked on software that interfaces with machines (i.e. nuclear shutdown systems). It's good to know, but I wouldn't exactly say it's relevant to a lot of people graduating from the program.

Other than that, the program appears pretty well rounded. The biggest issue I have, without sounding arrogant, is competency by those with any sort of authority. I know for a fact, after going through the capstone project, is that almost nobody comes out understanding software design. Nobody I've ever worked with in any group project seems to get the whole modularity thing. I think the reason this is, is because nobody (TA's/professors) invest significant time into looking over anyone's work. As long as it looks right (believe me, it's easy to bullshit a legitimate looking design document) - it is right in their eyes.

That, and I don't think any of them have much practical experience. Everything's simple in theory when it comes to software....

I've honestly learned more about being a competent programmer from the programming subreddit than I have from school.

If you don't care about control systems, McMaster's computer science program isn't bad. It's almost the same as the software engineering programming and the students in my opinion are in general of higher caliber.

Originally Posted by qwerty91

@Mike
Complaining usually doesnt do a lot. Example: 2z03 and 2zz3. Some of the worst courses available at mac. Note those were examples. Not meant to hijack the thread

Yea, to clarify for you one more time: This was never brought up to the VP Academic and formally, properly taken care of.

The MES has a lot more power to affect and improve your education than you think...

Originally Posted by mike_302

Yea, to clarify for you one more time: This was never brought up to the VP Academic and formally, properly taken care of.

The MES has a lot more power to affect and improve your education than you think...

lol haven't petitions been brought forth multiple times?

Originally Posted by Ownaginatios

lol haven't petitions been brought forth multiple times?

By individuals who took the process upon themselves. Never to the VP Academic.

Work with what you got. At the end of the day, schools are pretty much interchangable when it comes to getting employment. Some employers will look more highly on certain degrees/schools due to the results, but this isn't mainstream. If you actually go beyond the call of duty (i.e. read the textbook and go into topics not covered in the class) and learn on your own time, you'll own.

Never blame your future prospects on profs/school/fate, its up to you... learning is free (interwebs), degrees are pieces of paper you pay for in time and money
http://www.codecademy.com/#!/exercises/0
https://www.coursera.org/
https://www.khanacademy.org/cs
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/index.htm...mputer-science
...
etc

Never blame your future prospects on profs/school/fate, its up to you... learning is free (interwebs), degrees are pieces of paper you pay for in time and money
http://www.codecademy.com/#!/exercises/0
https://www.coursera.org/
https://www.khanacademy.org/cs
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/index.htm...mputer-science
...
etc

It is sort of true, but when you pay 10 grand a year, you would expect it be be at least half decent.

So... are you guys up for a protest? How about a protest during the Mac Open House in May? You think bringing attention to the problem when Mac is trying to lure future students would help the cause?

I don't know about Software Engineering per se, but I was talking to Prof Lawford the other day and he mentioned that he's been pushing to have the Mechatronics programme changed (such as removing 3N03, adding a mechanical design course or two in second year, making most of the courses more practical/more relevant programming and design wise et cetera).

I think he said he had a proposal drafted up and he's just waiting for feedback from the higher ups. Though, of course, these changes will probably be made a few years down the road so it's all still up in the air.

Lawford is the person that designed the program, if he wants to make changes to Tron, you know he means business.