It's like government services. Not everyone collects welfare, or uses the soup kitchen, or goes to the hospital for a terminal illness. But other people do, and without the government spending tax dollars on it, no one would have any of that. And then where would we be?

So that's my take on it, in addition to the earlier "funding for arts programs" example. I'm not really that great at providing examples...

I try to keep my own team out of this discussion, but there's the solar car fee that went through referendum many years back (around 5 or 6?). And it's still the only "club" fee that's there. People have to vote on it, and I think if the Chinese Engineering Chess Society went and tried to money grab some money, no one would vote for it. EWB is a great cause, and solar car is a great cause, and I think that McMaster students can judge whether or not an organization actually deserves the money.

I think the culture/religion clubs are kind of meh myself, but if people want to meet people who believe in the same things that they do, then I think it's fine. It adds to their university experience, so why not? It doesn't detract from mine, and for all I know, they have enough members that they're the ones who've paid for their club funds anyway.

Its not like government services at all but thanks for playing.

Originally Posted by sew12

Its not like government services at all but thanks for playing.

Hahah I completely agree ... except for the fact that it is a small fee contributed by every person who is subject to the school government, and it benefits the majority of people, and if you chose to participate it will benefit you as well. So I guess besides every way you could rationally look at it, it is nothing like a government service. </sarcasm>

I hate changing the subject, but how does solar car benefit the school community? If you ask me, that is a waste of money(this is based on my current knowledge of it). It targets such a small group of students, has little practical application, has almost no impact locally or globally, and when I went into the office the other day to offer them some rice crispy squares with chocolate in the middle, there was like a gross grind session going on. It was awkward due to the "hot girl"-"not hot guy" mismatch, and the grind session. Solar car, wth?

in reading some of the recent posts I feel as if some people may be losing sight of what the fee is ACTUALLY for- yes EWB is a campus club but this fee goes towards a program offered by the club that ANY student can apply to.

This is how it differs from other club fees that would provide funding exclusively to club members only as this is an opportunity for any student to apply for or seize if they choose so. Granted past involvement with EWB would probably make you more LIKELY to be selected but it is by no means a requirement (ex. JF of 2008 and current chapter president Erica was selected to be JF before getting involved with EWB and it was her role as JF that involved/introduced her into the chapter)

Originally Posted by mlangille

in reading some of the recent posts I feel as if some people may be losing sight of what the fee is ACTUALLY for- yes EWB is a campus club but this fee goes towards a program offered by the club that ANY student can apply to.

This is how it differs from other club fees that would provide funding exclusively to club members only as this is an opportunity for any student to apply for or seize if they choose so. Granted past involvement with EWB would probably make you more LIKELY to be selected but it is by no means a requirement (ex. JF of 2008 and current chapter president Erica was selected to be JF before getting involved with EWB and it was her role as JF that involved/introduced her into the chapter)

Just to play devil's advocate...ANY student can join any club as well. Not to repeat everything I said above, but there are so many groups with so many programs that are deserving of money, I don't feel it's a good idea to lock ourselves in with a fee for just one group.

Wow, lots of strong opinions here. Perhaps consider submitting something to General Assembly?

Just sayin'. :-)

Originally Posted by McIntyre

Just to play devil's advocate...ANY student can join any club as well. Not to repeat everything I said above, but there are so many groups with so many programs that are deserving of money, I don't feel it's a good idea to lock ourselves in with a fee for just one group.

I dont really think that is playing devil's advocate, her point was that you aren't supporting the club, you are supporting sending volunteers abroad to Africa for development aid to help reduce extreme suffering. Which is almost separate from the club.

JFs, if I am not mistaken, do not go abroad and work with EWB on EWB projects. They get teamed up with an NGO that is working in one of a few areas of interest to development aid. So there is no real EWB project going on that they work on, but they help support the NGOs so they can get their project done effectively to actually help alleviate extreme suffering. If I am not mistaken that is the way it works. It is a brilliant use of the resources because we can take the expertise a volunteer has and slide them into the perfect place to benefit the projects the most. Yeah optimization!

Also, I might be mistaken about this, but I think EWB was originally all gungho about doing engineering projects, but quickly found that to have a lasting affect, and really have an impact, it was a better use of their resources to support existing projects and lend their expertise in different ways. Because of this, non-engineers are now invaluable to EWB, and desperately needed to get everything done in a way that will benefit dorothy the best (Dorothy is an EWB term for the person you are benefiting, ask an EWBer about it, dont ask me).

Originally Posted by Rossclot

Hahah I completely agree ... except for the fact that it is a small fee contributed by every person who is subject to the school government, and it benefits the majority of people, and if you chose to participate it will benefit you as well. So I guess besides every way you could rationally look at it, it is nothing like a government service. </sarcasm>

While I would love to get into a whole debate over the merit of government funding for the arts and various charities, Stephanie is right that this is hugely different from government programs. The MSU has some aspects of a government, but it does have the word Union in the title for a reason. It is supposed to be about benefiting students.

Obviously everyone would have a different idea of what this entails, but adding a fee to support something that helps so few students isn't a great idea. As has been pointed out, this money would ONLY be going to fund sending the JFs on volunteer trips. And while they can then give talks and workshops, those don't exactly interest most students. And its not like there's a shortage of speakers.

The only person getting any real benefit is the JFs, who get a lot of amazing experience. Many students choose to go to foreign countries as volunteers, and most pay to do it. I don't see why the EWB program is so much more deserving than them.

[quote=waddlesworth;12 7223]but you know most of that money came from SOCS people themselves. People are always more generous to their friends, especially when its a thing as rare as a SOCS bakesale.
/QUOTE]

You say it like its a bad thing that people who are involved in an organization are the ones supporting it. SOCS does lots of fundraisers, most of which are very successful. That's why we've raised so much money toward things like Shinerama and the Jamie Kuss fund.

I dont know how people are missing this. When the JFs get back they have a lot of responsibilities here. Their job isnt over when they get back from Africa. I'm not just saying this like it is some sort of weird selling point, I have seen this many times over. In my classes and outside my classes, directly from the JFs actually.

Originally Posted by Rossclot

I dont know how people are missing this. When the JFs get back they have a lot of responsibilities here. Their job isnt over when they get back from Africa. I'm not just saying this like it is some sort of weird selling point, I have seen this many times over. In my classes and outside my classes, directly from the JFs actually.

I don't know why people think that when others disagree with them it means they don't understand certain aspects of their position.

Originally Posted by Rossclot

I dont know how people are missing this. When the JFs get back they have a lot of responsibilities here. Their job isnt over when they get back from Africa. I'm not just saying this like it is some sort of weird selling point, I have seen this many times over. In my classes and outside my classes, directly from the JFs actually.

That point was not lost on me. I directly pointed out in my post that they would be doing workshops and talks as well.

I don't consider that to be beneficial to the average student, because
a) most aren't interested
and
b) there is no shortage of people willing to talk about the importance of helping poorer countries

The problem I have with this referendum is the same as what other people voiced out. Having it part of the student fees does not allow other students a choice to donate or not. Moreover, there are many other clubs on campus that send students overseas to volunteer. Why should the student body only support EWB above any other. Once we allow this, more clubs will ask for support for their members, and the supplementary fees will start increasing. It is the principle, and this is what I addressed when an EWB member first presented this concept to me.

Furthermore, by raising the fee by 35 cents it only sends 1 student. If you would like to go, competition would be pretty high, especially if it will essentially be for free (if we do vote yes in the referendum).

Originally Posted by angelsmile26

. Why should the student body only support EWB above any other.

cuz engineers are awesome



p.s. Don't forget to vote today! Even if its no or abstain...

ugh ... you arent supporting EWB. The club does not get money from this. The JF programs costs are covered. We have had 5 pages of going through this again and again, it is not like EWB is going to take your 35 cents and go buy cupcakes from westdale. The JF program benefits, not EWB.

Is there a doctors without borders group at Mac?

I'm just confused why this one group at Mac would be getting money out of tuition, but others wouldn't.