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has anyone seen this: Ontario's New 13% Harmonized Sales Tax & What It Will Mean To Y

 
Old 10-28-2009 at 02:27 PM   #16
reeves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Met View Post
If your going to complain about taxes, you better start bitching about how we should cut health care spending and end our subsidized university tuition, because that is what taxes pay for.
Pretty sure that already happened. Way to be 14 years behind.

As taxpayers we have both a right, and an obligation to complain when we feel something is wrong. If we don't nothing ever gets better.
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Old 10-28-2009 at 02:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
Pretty sure that already happened. Way to be 14 years behind.

As taxpayers we have both a right, and an obligation to complain when we feel something is wrong. If we don't nothing ever gets better.
That's a big problem here though. I don't feel as though the population has a strong enough voice. I'm not saying that the voice is repressed, I'm saying that it just seems like the majority of the population doesn't seem to care or they just mumble about it and carry on with their lives.
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Old 10-28-2009 at 02:36 PM   #18
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Do students from low income families still get grants and interest free loans (OSAP)?. That's subsidized tuition.

Ill say again that we cant have a magical government that operates forever in a deficit. If your going to complain about raising taxes, name some specific services that you feel should be slashed.

I feel the government is in between a rock and hard place right now. If it cuts services people will complain, if it raises taxes people will complain, and if it stays in deficit people will complain.

To me raising taxes (keeping in mind that the HST is not a corporate or windfall profits tax, and therefore has a lessened effect on investment and economic growth) seems to be the best option out of those three.

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Old 10-28-2009 at 02:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jhan523 View Post
That's a big problem here though. I don't feel as though the population has a strong enough voice. I'm not saying that the voice is repressed, I'm saying that it just seems like the majority of the population doesn't seem to care or they just mumble about it and carry on with their lives.
Part of that is because when someone does complain, someone else comes along and tells them they're sick of that attitude. And I'm not just referring to the previous post. I used to hear stuff like that all the time at work to, about both work and government policies. Person A complains, person B tells them to quit whining.

Another is that Toronto pretty much decides what Premier we get, due to their number of seats in parliament. And Toronto/the GTA last I saw was entirely liberal, save 2 NDP seats. Until that changes, Dalton has the support he needs, regardless of what the rest of the province thinks.
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Old 10-28-2009 at 02:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Met View Post
Do students from low income families still get grants and interest free loans (OSAP)?. That's subsidized tuition.

Ill say again that we cant have a magical government that operates forever in a deficit. If your going to complain about raising taxes, name some specific services that you feel should be slashed.

I feel the government is in between a rock and hard place right now. If it cuts services people will complain, if it raises taxes people will complain, and if it stays in deficit people will complain.

To me raising taxes (keeping in mind that the HST is not a corporate or windfall profits tax, and therefore has a lessened effect on investment and economic growth) seems to be the best option out of those three.
My OSAP is tax free? Oh wait.

Dalton has already raised taxes, and the deficit has grown by 15 Billion since he took office. Harris made cuts people complained about, but virtually eliminated the debt in under 4 years. How is raising taxes working?
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Old 10-28-2009 at 04:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
My OSAP is tax free? Oh wait.
Oh wait what?
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Old 10-28-2009 at 04:31 PM   #22
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Oh wait what?
OSAP gets taxed after you graduate... and by taxed I actually mean interest.
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Old 10-28-2009 at 04:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhan523 View Post
OSAP gets taxed after you graduate... and by taxed I actually mean interest.
I was just pointing out that it doesn't get taxed
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Old 10-28-2009 at 04:59 PM   #24
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I was just pointing out that it doesn't get taxed
Yeah, it's worse than a tax...
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Old 10-28-2009 at 05:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jhan523 View Post
Yeah, it's worse than a tax...
Not really, since the interest is tax deductible.
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Old 10-28-2009 at 05:06 PM   #26
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The fact of the matter is the government is losing that interest while you are in school. It still costs them money.
Old 10-28-2009 at 05:20 PM   #27
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It's one thing to raise taxes to support spending, blah blah.

It's another thing to disguise it as some wonderful new idea. Think about what percentage of the population does not, and will not understand the issue, simply because of their phrasing and the convoluted nature of this tax.


If you're gonna raise taxes, raise em to my face. A 2% tax increase? Sure enough, the gov't needs a little more 'allowance,' there's not much to be done. Get ready to feel my wrath.

Don't give me this 'oh sometimes you get taxed, but if you're the right person living in the right place, there's no change at all!' and hide behind your fancy tricks, just to avoid my wrath.

Gimme a break.

Last edited by Mowicz : 10-28-2009 at 05:22 PM.
Old 10-28-2009 at 09:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
Why should I move across the country? The elected leader of the province is doing something that no one I know of supports. The government is supposed to act in the best interest of the people that elected them. How is taxing people more in an unstable economy in anyones best interest but their own?
Sometime politicians have to make hard choices. In fact, one of the biggest downfalls with our current system is that the government can't make tough choices without losing the popularity that they need to keep their jobs. Its a huge conflict of interest, that sometimes leads to unstable spending.

Everyone wants more government programs and lower taxes, but the two are mutually exclusive. Its too much of trying to do both that gets us into huge deficits.

I don't like the fact that the tax will drive prices up, but the government needs to collect as much as they spend. And lets be honest, this is barely an increase. Its just extending the boundaries of an existing tax (as far as I understand).

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Old 10-28-2009 at 10:47 PM   #29
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My problem with the HST.... well I have a lot.... but first off it is to CUT COSTS of the old system. If you cut costs, don't you need less revenue to work from? cutting costs from collecting 13% but still collecting 13% means you will have a net increase in revenue from the tax! So already they are better off, then they go and tax things that weren't taxed before! Labour, energy and utilities, the list doesn't stop! I see students paying more in rent and utilities now!

Yes there is a deficit but the government said it was needed to get us through the hard times in the market. Personally I hate government intervention in the market. So they can just suck it up and not charge us more for their "educated decision" to help with the last year.

I also find it hard to be sympathetic that they are not rolling in money since they paid millions upon millions of dollars for E-Health going against their rules that they must go out to tender with the project! They could have saved tons of money but instead they went with the "I know a guy" guy. Also deciding it was legit to pay the public servants higher than the legal wage cap! Not just one but many! Then hiding these wages in the budgets of hospitals and other organizations!!! I don't think we should trust them with any of our money let alone more of it!

Finally I am not against an HST but this model is wack! If you want to standardize consumption taxes do it country wide and get rid of income tax! If you tax more people at a higher rate for purchasing things, but don't take their money before they even see it they are more likely to spend it! and balancing the governments loss on the income tax. Being taxed on money that was already taxed doesnt seem right! Not to mention a consumption tax can't be changed without being noticed, its right on your receipts! But income tax and other charges they add on like the health one can be slipped under your nose.

But that's just my beef with the HST.
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Old 10-28-2009 at 10:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadpool View Post
I'm personally disgusted to see the NDP and the PC agreeing on an issue involving economic beliefs and taxation. Just proves that Canadian politics has turned into a melting pot of idealogies and we, the people, are getting screwed by personal battles between politicians choosing to align themselves with a particular colour.

I understand why the PC party doesn't like it. I kind of have an idea of why the NDP doesn't like it.... Not for the same reasons so its not too bad..... the ironic thing I see is that the petition and letter from the NDP talks about the sale of a house thats worth $1 million. Is that really the issue at hand for NDP supporters?
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