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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:13 PM   #16
Lifejacket
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I am a TA for Multimedia 1A03 and I DO NOT support the union and I will still be teaching, regardless of what CUPE thinks about it. Scab or not. They should be ashamed of themselves.

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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:13 PM   #17
Parnian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Marlowe View Post
Do you have examples of courses that have 60-70 kids in a tutorial? Or even half that in a lab?

(Excluding courses like Psych 2F03, any first year Calc, etc, where tutorials are a lecture style).

Because I've never had anything close to that, and first year science has some of the biggest classes on campus. You'd think that would be where the most crowding would take place.
My immunobiology tutorial has 50 students, sometimes more come in. The TA is a graduate TA, and he's known for being extremely helpful in his tutorials, so they skip their own and come see him instead.

Furthermore, my organic chemistry lab would have like 40-50 people. People would just come in and go to work under one lab TA. The lab TA didn't know anyone's names and would simply mark our labs, and hand them back out. There is hardly any 1-on-1 interaction. Most of my chemistry lab TAs would "yell" at us to get out under 3 hours because they'd have to spend another 6-7 hours marking our labs. I don't blame them.

I can hardly find any tutorial where I don't feel "just like a number". My political science one was the most intimate. Do psychology first year courses even offer them anymore?
Old 10-31-2009 at 01:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnian View Post
My immunobiology tutorial has 50 students, sometimes more come in. The TA is a graduate TA, and he's known for being extremely helpful in his tutorials, so they skip their own and come see him instead.

Furthermore, my organic chemistry lab would have like 40-50 people. People would just come in and go to work under one lab TA. The lab TA didn't know anyone's names and would simply mark our labs, and hand them back out. There is hardly any 1-on-1 interaction. Most of my chemistry lab TAs would "yell" at us to get out under 3 hours because they'd have to spend another 6-7 hours marking our labs. I don't blame them.

I can hardly find any tutorial where I don't feel "just like a number". My political science one was the most intimate. Do psychology first year courses even offer them anymore?
My Orgo lab has about 12 people. There's more in the room, but the room is divided into sections with 1 TA per section. When the heck did you take the course? And what the heck lab rooms were you in? The ones in ABB that we use currently fit about that number of people, but there is no way they would assign 1 TA to that whole lab room.

The first year Psych courses offer Review sessions of about 30 people, and tutorial sections that are about half that.
Old 10-31-2009 at 01:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTGregD View Post
So you don't even have your facts straight, and just jump to a conclusion supporting CUPE. Sigh.

So many of your posts are just flamebait that it's ridiculous. But I guess that's the power you get when you are anonymous since you obviously don't want people to link your opinion to who you are. You're like one of only a handful of people on here who don't disclose who they are.
2nd paragraph is irrelevant

re: not having the facts. I've read their site. They want a higher wage and found that TAs would be getting less than last year given the current increase in tuition, like $500 less or something.
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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:32 PM   #20
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" (classes might get canceled because profs and Mac staff find it hard to cross the picket lines),"

If they get in your way (assuming you were driving), just run them over.
Old 10-31-2009 at 01:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDragoonX View Post
2nd paragraph is irrelevant

re: not having the facts. I've read their site. They want a higher wage and found that TAs would be getting less than last year given the current increase in tuition, like $500 less or something.
Obviously you haven't really got an idea of what they want. They have repeatedly said that their main issue is with benefits for graduate T.A.s and not with the specific wage they're paid.

And I don't think being a coward and hiding behind your statements is irrelevant. It's hard to have a debate when one person isn't accountable for anything they say.
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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:33 PM   #22
Parnian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Marlowe View Post
My Orgo lab has about 12 people. There's more in the room, but the room is divided into sections with 1 TA per section. When the heck did you take the course? And what the heck lab rooms were you in? The ones in ABB that we use currently fit about that number of people, but there is no way they would assign 1 TA to that whole lab room.

The first year Psych courses offer Review sessions of about 30 people, and tutorial sections that are about half that.
Wow, you must have taken organic chemistry at a great time because my entire lab would be run under one TA. That is filled with at LEAST 40 people.

Are you really deluded in thinking our science tutorials and labs have a small number of people with at least some kind of close contact between teacher and student? If you are, I feel sorry for you. The biology tutorials have at least 35 students crammed into a small room with one TA summarizing/presenting information. It is NOT an ideal learning situation.

My whole problem is that people nowadays are all about THEIR situations, THEIR life, and not OTHERS lives. You may be just fine but others may not be. They may be spending up to 40 hours a week marking, preparing, and teaching classes when in fact they're only being told to work 20 and being paid for 20. And I've found, this is almost always the case with the graduate TAs.

And the graduate TAs are not the majority. It's the undergraduates, as their wages are less!

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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sew12 View Post
You people are completely missing the point (either that or FireDragonX is again just trying to stir the pot).

No one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to strike or that they don't deserve more benefits or the opportunity to fight for the demands they want.

All we're saying is CUPE is not allowing their membership to decide on what is being offered to them and they're threatening all those who don't agree with them. This is unfair.
"No one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to strike"
that's all I've been reading here

"or that they don't deserve more benefits or the opportunity to fight for the demands they want."
PTGregD and other people on here think otherwise.

"All we're saying is CUPE is not allowing their membership to decide on what is being offered to them and they're threatening all those who don't agree with them. This is unfair."
I'm sure votes have taken place.
Since I'm not part of CUPE I have no idea how you contact them. Nor do I care to visit their website (I have, but briefly).
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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDragoonX View Post
"All we're saying is CUPE is not allowing their membership to decide on what is being offered to them and they're threatening all those who don't agree with them. This is unfair."
I'm sure votes have taken place.
Apparently not sure enough, since you're wrong. CUPE rejected their offer without letting anyone vote on it. (They rejected the University's request to have members vote on it)
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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnian View Post
Wow, you must have taken organic chemistry at a great time because my entire lab would be run under one TA. That is filled with at LEAST 40 people.

Are you really deluded in thinking our science tutorials and labs have a small number of people with at least some kind of close contact between teacher and student? If you are, I feel sorry for you. The biology tutorials have at least 35 students crammed into a small room with one TA summarizing/presenting information. It is NOT an ideal learning situation.

My whole problem is that people nowadays are all about THEIR situations, THEIR life, and not OTHERS lives. You may be just fine but others may not be. They may be spending up to 40 hours a week marking, preparing, and teaching classes when in fact they're only being told to work 20 and being paid for 20. And I've found, this is almost always the case with the graduate TAs.

And the graduate TAs are not the majority. It's the undergraduates, as their wages are less!
Depends on which Biology, 1M03 tutorials had about 25 kids, Bio 1A03 had about 32. Which was the only tutorial I've had so far that I would consider overcrowded.
That's how Orgo is currently set up, as well as both first year Chems. If it was set up differently in the past, that definitely sucks. But that is not the current set up.

I've had pretty close contact with a lot of my TAs, and still talk to a few of my TAs from last year. It seems like you've had really bad experiences, but I assure you that's not what people are getting now- for science at least.

I thought that Undergrads only made up 10% of CUPE Unit 1, meaning that the graduates would be the majority. Regardless, the Undergrads are the ones who seem to be the most heavily against a strike.
Old 10-31-2009 at 01:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTGregD View Post
Apparently not sure enough, since you're wrong. CUPE rejected their offer without letting anyone vote on it. (They rejected the University's request to have members vote on it)
The university wants to have a vote, simply put because they know that the majority of TAs are undergraduate and ignorant of the exploited upper year TAs (especially graduates). Also, right now there is a STRONG anti-union sentiment, especially in an economic recession. Yet let's forget about the fact that McMaster raised tuition up to 4% in ONE year (maximum lawful amount) and were awarded so much money by the government to "improve education". As a student, I don't see any improvisation of education.

And it was not a request, it was a recommendation.
Old 10-31-2009 at 01:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Marlowe View Post
Depends on which Biology, 1M03 tutorials had about 25 kids, Bio 1A03 had about 32. Which was the only tutorial I've had so far that I would consider overcrowded.
That's how Orgo is currently set up, as well as both first year Chems. If it was set up differently in the past, that definitely sucks. But that is not the current set up.

I've had pretty close contact with a lot of my TAs, and still talk to a few of my TAs from last year. It seems like you've had really bad experiences, but I assure you that's not what people are getting now- for science at least.

I thought that Undergrads only made up 10% of CUPE Unit 1, meaning that the graduates would be the majority. Regardless, the Undergrads are the ones who seem to be the most heavily against a strike.
Where did you get this fact (the undergrads only representing 10%)? Link please. Thanks. I am under the impression that ALL TA's are going on strike. Not just 10% of the undergrad TAs.
Old 10-31-2009 at 01:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnian View Post
Thank you Mowicz for your input. I truly appreciate it.

I understand your situation but is it not true that there are some TAs that do not have it as easy as you? I have heard many complaining that they have 60-70 students in a tutorial and having to mark labs which may take up to 20 hours, hours that are not compensated for in the end. The complaints are largely deriving from the science and engineering faculties, and less so from say the political science faculty.
Don't get me wrong, I definitely work more than the solid 5 hours per week...particularly when it comes to grading as you've mentioned. Sometimes while grading, I want to tear my eyeballs out, haha...it certainly feels as though I'm overworked when I'm doing something semi-monotonous like grading.

I'm in Science by the way...well, Math specifically. And just to set the record straight, no I don't have heavy labs to grade although I do have regular assignments...and it seems to me as though math assignments are among the most difficult to grade. Why?

Because any given question can be done in many ways, often times I see solutions to problems that I'd never even considered and I have to force myself to see their logic and understand what they're trying to do. And in the event that a student does a question wrong, I have to ensure that they see why...because Math is all cumulative. Often times I find myself grading a single assignment for upwards of 20 hours (which is supposed to be approximately my TA workload for an entire month!). Not to mention, I like writing comments, drawing pictures and writing partial solutions on their assignments (because my particular class (Vector Calculus) is a very visual subject) since it really helps drive the points home, and ultimately results in (I hope!) better acquisition of the course material.

So when I say that I don't think it would lighten my load, I really mean that despite this. What would lighten my load is if my department (Math & Stats) felt the need to place more TAs on my course...but this has nothing to do with the union.

Quote:
My issue here is that there are some TAs that feel they are getting the short end of the stick, and unfortunately, the TAs that are doing well are just telling them to "suck it up". It is really bizarre to me.
Sure, but at the same time, isn't it bizarre and unfair that I'll lose money because some other TAs feel the contract is unfair?

In a perfect world, every single person would be an individual and have their individual needs tailored...and the problem is, a union contradicts the idea of being an individual in the first place...so in other words, in a perfect world, there'd be no such thing as a union. (It simply wouldn't be necessary)

It's lose-lose: Either the TAs who are being 'treated unfairly' continue to keep getting treated unfairly, or the TAs who are being 'treated fairly' lose out on money they're entitled to. The job of the union is to make the most members happy. Namely, the majority of TAs say what happens...it's not a perfect system, but we don't live in a perfect world.

It seems as though the TAs who are being treated unfairly are in the minority...so by striking, a lot more TAs are unhappy.

Last edited by Mowicz : 10-31-2009 at 01:56 PM.

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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:51 PM   #29
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Sorry, I think you misinterpreted me. I said that of CUPE Unit 1 (TAs) 90% are grad student, 10% are UG. I believe that dsahota mentioned that in one of his posts, I'll go try to find that now.

EDIT: http://www.macinsiders.com/showthrea...2430 9&page=4

Turns out I was wrong, the split is 70% Graduate Students, 30% Undergraduate. Thanks for pointing that out!

Last edited by Marlowe : 10-31-2009 at 01:58 PM.

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Old 10-31-2009 at 01:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnian View Post
The university wants to have a vote, simply put because they know that the majority of TAs are undergraduate and ignorant of the exploited upper year TAs (especially graduates). Also, right now there is a STRONG anti-union sentiment, especially in an economic recession. Yet let's forget about the fact that McMaster raised tuition up to 4% in ONE year (maximum lawful amount) and were awarded so much money by the government to "improve education". As a student, I don't see any improvisation of education.

And it was not a request, it was a recommendation.
Democratic societies are based on the concept of majority rules; in fact, CUPE also abides by that concept of majority when it comes to their votes. Doesn't that strike you as contradicting then when they won't let their members vote? (Because they are afraid that we will vote AS A MAJORITY and overturn their judgement).

And recommendation vs. request is really just arguing about semantics.
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