McMaster Life Science Question
01-31-2011 at 09:30 PM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arathbon
In 20 courses I have gotten one mark that wasn't an A or A+. It was a B in English. The two other humanities courses I took I earned an A and an A+ in. I only got an A in Italian because I already knew the material from high school, and I was barely able to pull off an A+ in Critical Thinking. Meanwhile I never doubted that I could get A+'s in first year chem, and I don't think I have a science course yet where I worried about not getting at least an A. (Except Orgo chem which was intimidating at first, but as I wrapped my head around it became much easier than most people say it is).
Not every doctor will be a physician-scientist. And that said not all research in health fields in based in the hard sciences. Much of it has to do with things like social determinants to health, health policy, or even things like music therapy (or therapy for musicians!). So I completely disagree that recruiting only (or even mostly) people with hard science backgrounds is advantageous to furthering medical research especially as medicine moves from the biomedical model to the biopsychosocial model.
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I'm talking about a fair fighting opportunity for all students.
What if I did want to go into med school to persue my interests in research in the medical field, on a clinical basis? Why should I be stuck with the disadvantage of a potentially lower CA than someone from another field? While it's true that med school has other encompassing aspects, I don't think the acceptance spots are categorized by how many people they need in each area.
You may be capable of getting an A+ in orgo, but you're probably one of the few. I haven't taken the course so I wouldn't know, but I do know that people did poorly in both my physics and chem courses this year. When you compare the averages for courses from first year science to courses like econ and anthro, there's a drastic difference. I don't know if that's how it is all through the 4 years, but that's what I'm seeing now.
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01-31-2011 at 09:41 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooburii
I'm talking about a fair fighting opportunity for all students.
What if I did want to go into med school to persue my interests in research in the medical field, on a clinical basis? Why should I be stuck with the disadvantage of a potentially lower CA than someone from another field? While it's true that med school has other encompassing aspects, I don't think the acceptance spots are categorized by how many people they need in each area.
You may be capable of getting an A+ in orgo, but you're probably one of the few. I haven't taken the course so I wouldn't know, but I do know that people did poorly in both my physics and chem courses this year. When you compare the averages for courses from first year science to courses like econ and anthro, there's a drastic difference. I don't know if that's how it is all through the 4 years, but that's what I'm seeing now.
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Actually I got an A in Orgo I (Chem 2OA3). I'm hoping for an A+ this term. Your perspective may change if you take any Arts courses that involve essays or other assignments that require creativity and or higher level thinking.
A lot of it has to do with following what you are passionate about and what you do well at. If you take only hard science courses and its not what you're good and at passionate about you won't do well. Also Physics, Chem, Orgo Chem are all part of the "prerequisites" normally taken by those applying to med school (or at least those who know they should apply broadly for best chance at acceptance), so someone who takes Humanities doesn't get out of that. There is also nothing stopping you for taking Econ as a minor or upper level electives.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking science. Most of my electives I have planned out are Biochem or Chemistry/Chem Bio, but its because its what I have a burning desire to take not because I'm trying to fit into the "premed" mould.
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01-31-2011 at 09:46 PM
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#18
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If your interested in medical school the health sciences program gives you a really good balance of science and humanities in different courses that overall relate to the field of health care.
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01-31-2011 at 09:53 PM
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#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arathbon
Actually I got an A in Orgo I (Chem 2OA3). I'm hoping for an A+ this term. Your perspective may change if you take any Arts courses that involve essays or other assignments that require creativity and or higher level thinking.
A lot of it has to do with following what you are passionate about and what you do well at. If you take only hard science courses and its not what you're good and at passionate about you won't do well. Also Physics, Chem, Orgo Chem are all part of the "prerequisites" normally taken by those applying to med school (or at least those who know they should apply broadly for best chance at acceptance), so someone who takes Humanities doesn't get out of that. There is also nothing stopping you for taking Econ as a minor or upper level electives.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking science. Most of my electives I have planned out are Biochem or Chemistry/Chem Bio, but its because its what I have a burning desire to take not because I'm trying to fit into the "premed" mould.
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Well, I respect you for that. Most of the people I know taking the non-science route to med school are pretentious and doing it just to gain the advantage of a higher CA.
Passion is definetly important, I agree. it just depends on where it's placed-- I know that coming into university I applied into life science, determined to get into med school, thinking there was no way I was gonna waste time switching into another program. Silly, right? That's sadly the mentality that probably most life sci students come in with. health science rejects yearning for an ideal route into medschool.
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02-02-2011 at 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooburii
Well, I respect you for that. Most of the people I know taking the non-science route to med school are pretentious and doing it just to gain the advantage of a higher CA.
Passion is definetly important, I agree. it just depends on where it's placed-- I know that coming into university I applied into life science, determined to get into med school, thinking there was no way I was gonna waste time switching into another program. Silly, right? That's sadly the mentality that probably most life sci students come in with. health science rejects yearning for an ideal route into medschool.
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And the funny thing is that it's not even the most ideal.
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02-02-2011 at 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AelyaS
Just a heads up: you don't actually need to major in something related to medicine to go to med school. When the McMaster reps came to my high school, one of the first things the guy presenting told us was about his friend, who did his undergrad in music and was now in his second year of med school.
Yeah.
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Thats messed.. I wonder how well people in non-science/health related undergrads who do medical school do well in it.
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02-02-2011 at 05:42 AM
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#22
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I don't know about that, but apparently, people who are in Humanities who took Science electives are some of those who do best in the MCAT.
aa123
says thanks to justinsftw for this post.
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02-02-2011 at 11:24 AM
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#23
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WOW!
Some of the people who replied earlier seem so BITTER! As if they NEVER asked or wondered the exact same thing as the poster THEMSELVES!
Jon, your questions are perfectly appropriate. IT IS A NUMBERS GAME! Words from some med people I know, not mine. Do whatever it takes to have a high gpa. Go to an unknown university. Take bird courses. Whatever. If there is anything i've learned in uni, is that my 20k for a science degree is useless. You have to do professional school which don't really care which undergrad you did, what they care about is your GPA. Only Engineering, Nursing, Med Rad etc, are useful in terms of job prospects. Health Sci is also useless degree, but those students have a great success rate in getting into professional schools (this is based on their faculties published stats). Of course, these students have to be highly achieving to get into Health Sci in the first place, but they also have a high GPA in university.
Of course, once you have the gpa, you need to have the ECs too.
Anyway, so the Life Sciences program is changing. Life Sciences is becoming its own stream, so by the end of this year, they will have life science courses limited only to life sciences students (it wasn't like this for us, because we were competing for spots with biology, psychology, etc).
I would say, stick to Life Sciences. It will give you the best opportunities to explore the subjects you want. Of course, if you know you always do well in e.g., psychology, then switch to psychology. But in my opinion, Life sciences will allow you to take a variety of courses which is really great if you don't like being tied to one subject.
Last edited by Anaam : 02-02-2011 at 11:30 AM.
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02-02-2011 at 01:41 PM
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but isn't that pretty sad. Like, you come to McMaster which had one of the highest entrance averages to get it 88% life sci 90+ health sci and you work your ass off to complete to the degree but you won't get into med school cuz some music kid at trent has a high GPA and will take your spot without having to do a single organic chem course. system = flawd
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02-02-2011 at 01:51 PM
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#25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCHEDDENITE
but isn't that pretty sad. Like, you come to McMaster which had one of the highest entrance averages to get it 88% life sci 90+ health sci and you work your ass off to complete to the degree but you won't get into med school cuz some music kid at trent has a high GPA and will take your spot without having to do a single organic chem course. system = flawd
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well yes but that kid at trent would not do so great on the mcat without having taken a single organic chem course...
without a good mcat score, one of the only schools that will accept you is mcmaster and that is quite plausible because they only require a good verbal reasoning score...
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02-02-2011 at 01:57 PM
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#26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCHEDDENITE
but isn't that pretty sad. Like, you come to McMaster which had one of the highest entrance averages to get it 88% life sci 90+ health sci and you work your ass off to complete to the degree but you won't get into med school cuz some music kid at trent has a high GPA and will take your spot without having to do a single organic chem course. system = flawd
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In Canada, that is how the game is played. Suppose you have Applicant A and Applicant B, with similar extracurriculars, scholarships, etc, etc, both have met prereqs and MCAT cutoffs.
Applicant A:
Works their butt off in a reputable engineering program at a known university. Fourth year applicant with a 3.75 cGPA (top of the class).
Applicant B:
Chooses to major in a general science program at a joke institution and picks only bird courses for 4 years. Fourth year applicant with a 3.95 cGPA.
Both have same level of interest in medicine. One just happens to have a higher gpa coming from an easier institution.
Guess who is getting in...
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02-02-2011 at 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCHEDDENITE
but isn't that pretty sad. Like, you come to McMaster which had one of the highest entrance averages to get it 88% life sci 90+ health sci and you work your ass off to complete to the degree but you won't get into med school cuz some music kid at trent has a high GPA and will take your spot without having to do a single organic chem course. system = flawd
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During our year I don't think you needed 88% to get into life sci, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the entrance cutoffs are in a couple years.
And you still require pre-reqs, so that music kid at Trent did have to take two organic chemistry courses, two biology courses, two general/inorganic chem courses, two physics courses. If he took all of those, got 90s+ in all of them without being in science, does better than someone at McMaster on the MCAT, which includes biology, chemistry, physics, and verbal, why the hell shouldn't he get the spot instead of someone at Mac?
Also, McMaster is a fairly easy school compared to something like U of T, so although I see your point, it's not like someone at Mac has it the worst out of everywhere.
At U of T getting close to a perfect GPA is very hard, here, it's not so bad.
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02-02-2011 at 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist11
And you still require pre-reqs, so that music kid at Trent did have to take two organic chemistry courses, two biology courses, two general/inorganic chem courses, two physics courses. If he took all of those, got 90s+ in all of them without being in science, does better than someone at McMaster on the MCAT, which includes biology, chemistry, physics, and verbal, why the hell shouldn't he get the spot instead of someone at Mac?
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Actually, Mac's med school has no prereqs. The only thing they require is the verbal/reasoning section of the MCAT (and even that is new). The cutoff GPA is dependent on the number of applicants, and there are no course prerequisites. At all.
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02-02-2011 at 02:25 PM
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#29
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If you're in life sciences & think you can cut it in medical school, you shouldn't have any trouble getting near a 4.0 GPA. Contrary to popular belief, it's not really that hard to regurgitate information.
(prepares for rage)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SciMania
well yes but that kid at trent would not do so great on the mcat without having taken a single organic chem course...
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Most of the chemistry on the MCAT is pretty rudimentary, from what I've seen. Even without an orgo course, someone could easily teach themselves the material and do fine.
Really, one could probably do that for the whole MCAT besides the verbal reasoning bit.
Last edited by Mahratta : 02-02-2011 at 02:28 PM.
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02-02-2011 at 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerual
Actually, Mac's med school has no prereqs. The only thing they require is the verbal/reasoning section of the MCAT (and even that is new). The cutoff GPA is dependent on the number of applicants, and there are no course prerequisites. At all.
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Ah, well McMaster is fairly different compared to most other schools.
I was talking about the others like U of T and whatever, but yeah, you're right. However, I think the lack of pre-reqs and stuff is cancelled out by the fact that McMaster usually has the most applicants for medical school, so the competition encompasses a larger amount of people.
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