Originally Posted by Kathy2

Is the VP Finance a student?

To clarify, they are not a student during their term (unless they only want to take one class per term). It's a full time position, so it's treated like a normal 9-5

Boy are the MSU making being a student at McMaster frustrating and quite frankly, an embarrassment. Has the MSU ever not been a joke? Serious question. And now it looks like there's a good chance we'll have another incompetent fool as the MSU president who doesn't accomplish anything for McMaster or its students and is only put into office because of gimmicks and popularity.

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

That makes sense but on the flip side destroys all semblance of MSU being a "student" union that provides students with experiences. We can similarly give away UM, Shortstop,Undercovers and all other revenue based services to professionals as well, maybe they might even do a better job?

But on the other hand we have 1280 with 3 full time non student well paid staff members & a very experienced manager and we all know how that is doing!

I get what you're saying, and I agree that it's good for the MSU to provide students with work. But I don't think someone with little to no experience should be in charge of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Originally Posted by Souldier

Boy are the MSU making being a student at McMaster frustrating and quite frankly, an embarrassment. Has the MSU ever not been a joke? Serious question. And now it looks like there's a good chance we'll have another incompetent fool as the MSU president who doesn't accomplish anything for McMaster or its students and is only put into office because of gimmicks and popularity.

Come on that's never happend before ...........

My issue lies both with experience, and accountability. When people in important roles such as this only serve 12 month terms, there's a high degree of probability that anything they do won't be discovered until they're long out of office, and not much can be done about it.

The reality of this situation is that the Auditors of the MSU are likely to be held liable for the error. This of course depends on the scope and nature of their audit work, but ultimately, when a professional services firm like Deloitte gets sued, they lose. Anyone who sues a firm like Deloitte takes it straight to a jury trial, and the jury ALWAYS side with the "poor students" or "poor investors" who were wronged by the Auditing firm, whether or not the firm owed a reasonable duty of care to those stakeholders.

I'm not saying Deloitte is or is not responsible, as I do not know the nature and extent of their prior audit engagements, but it is likely that they will be the ones to pay for this.

Originally Posted by Souldier

put into office because of gimmicks and popularity.

I recommend that you go around and talk to your friends and make sure they realize who they are voting for, not based off of gimmicks like you said, and more on platform ideas and what they want to do. I'm doing that lol!

And that's why the MSU needs better transition so these things don't happen. If there was better transition, we wouldn't have to wait seven years to figure out that PST wasn't paid.

this is simply unacceptable

Originally Posted by Nino

And that's why the MSU needs better transition so these things don't happen. If there was better transition, we wouldn't have to wait seven years to figure out that PST wasn't paid.

Unless the individual transitioning the successor(I'm assuming you mean VP Finance here? Personally I'm not even sure if it comes under the portfolio of VP finance role to figure out these audit issues himself) has no idea whatsoever that the Health Plan surplus is actually unpaid PST. Hence continuing the chain of people not being aware. Could someone in the middle have figured this out in an audit?

I am hopeless at accounting but here is what it looks like to me:

1)Health Plan appears to have a surplus. I'm assuming in accounts you measure up the flat fees from students received versus every single claims receipt(Which in real life can lead to mishaps). It appears as if the total of all receipts added up are less then the flat fee charged to every student(minus opt outs).

2) Then shouldn't the next step be to pay the government PST tax from the surplus before you declare your "after tax" profit/surplus?

Interesting....It does seem simple

To anyone reading, please point out the mistake in that logic!

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

Unless the individual transitioning the successor(I'm assuming you mean VP Finance here? Personally I'm not even sure if it comes under the portfolio of VP finance role to figure out these audit issues himself) has no idea whatsoever that the Health Plan surplus is actually unpaid PST. Hence continuing the chain of people not being aware. Could someone in the middle have figured this out in an audit?

I am hopeless at accounting but here is what it looks like to me:

1)Health Plan appears to have a surplus. I'm assuming in accounts you measure up the flat fees from students received versus every single claims receipt(Which in real life can lead to mishaps). It appears as if the total of all receipts added up are less then the flat fee charged to every student(minus opt outs).

2) Then shouldn't the next step be to pay the government PST tax from the surplus before you declare your "after tax" profit/surplus?

Interesting....It does seem simple

To anyone reading, please point out the mistake in that logic!

Many (if not most) organizations would use a special liability account called PST Payable. I know, it's tough to wrap your head around... and whenever you collected money on a sale, you would make the following journal entry:

Cash $108,000
MSU Health Plan Revenues $100,000
PST Payable $8,000

Then, at the end of the year (or at some interim point), you would look at the PST Payable account and say: HM... we owe the government $8,000. Let's pay them.

I don't know how the MSU is treating it, but if there is a PST Payable account, then someone REALLY ****ed up, and if there is not, there probably should be.

Edit: I tried to indent the credit side of the journal entry, but MacInsiders didn't like that formatting. So for any accounting folks out there, don't judge me!

Rohan, and others who disagree with the SRA recalling the VP (finance) Andrew Caterine:

If you, as the boss (the Board of Directors, who include the VP finance) cannot handle a situation with an employee who overlooks a $50,000 or $100,000 drain on students funds, then YOU are not qualified to do your job. This is why I think action should (and still can) be taken on the part of the Board of Directors.

You can see here the students are asking for answers and action, yet I have no indication that the Board will do anything about it. This puts it in the SRA's hands.

Where can I find an overview of the MSU's hierarchy and authority structure? I've never fully understood how it works.

The SRA is pressing hard for answers on this.
Myself, and many other members have spoken with the VP Finance about the issues. As soon as we have answers they will be relayed to everyone else.
Personally I am expecting the results of the investigation to be give during the next SRA meeting (this is not to say they will be, it is just want I am expecting).
None of the SRA is pleased about this, and most have made it clear to the BoD that strict action must be taken.
As soon as answers come out I am sure they will be on this MI very quickly.

Oh look more finger pointing. Neat.

absolutely. i want to see some finger pointing. I'm not saying its one person's fault. its a group mistake. We deserve to know who messed up and how this is going to be rectified. I hate knowing that students have to collectively pay for the screw up of a small group.