Hey Everyone!


I am trying to operate an academic club for the first semester that is not MSU ratified. The staff from my program are being very hostile and are trying to shut us down because we are not MSU ratified. I am waiting until the January period to get my club MSU ratified.

My question is, if my club is not MSU ratified what are the consequences? Can we get in any sort of trouble? All we do right now is unite students over a shared passion (think politics)


Thanks!

I don't think there are issues with having unofficial clubs, as long as you don't post unauthorized ads all over campus (which of course MSU must authorized). There's nothing preventing you from saying "hey guys, lets do this thing, and lets be a club outside of the system".

MSU might have to require you to avoid using "McMaster" in your title, but other than that I think they are just being sandy vaginas.

Nobody can stop a group of students from gathering. My biggest question is, why do the faculty from your program even know about the club? And from there, why does it matter what they do/think, and how are they trying to shut down your club?

That's the club anyway?

It's was called the McMaster Investment Club. We basically taught students how to properly pitch stocks and get jobs in the capital markets. Nothing crazy.

Someone from last year's exec did not fill out the ratification forms out properly and now we are not ratified for the semester. We were still planning to meet but it I am almost being harassed by the faculty - the associate dean emails me every time he suspects we meet.

I have a feeling this goes deeper into the politics of the school. Our career services is very weak (compared to the good school like Queens and Ivey) and our club was able to do what they have not been able to do for years (place students in capital markets jobs). If our club continues to run, we take away legitimacy - and possibly funding - from the career services center when people realize how poor of a job they do.


I plan to go to the dean of students and discuss with him my options. I cannot believe I am being harassed for just uniting student for a shared passion outside of class.

I'm confused --- and I've certainly pushed limits regarding student group affiliations on campus before...

How are your dean's e-mails harassing you? Admin can know about your club meetings, can attend them, etc. But they have no power in this case... Why would they want to? No offense, but your posts are only speculating that your Faculty is offended by your actions, but what real proof do you have of that?

That your Faculty doesn't want the club to exist is heresay right now.

Glad to provide legitimately useful advice, but more solid info is needed first.

He e-mails everytime that he thinks we are meeting. He dealt with the club in the past and supposedly past heads of the clubs did not cooperate with the business school. He has specifically stated to me, in no uncertain terms, that he does not want our club to exist. There are two unratified business clubs, which both had a meeting with him, and he said he does not want us to exist. I'll admit I am speculating about the Career services comment on wanting to shut us down.

Out of respect myself and the other club leader shut down the club for this semester until we are ratified. I am looking more into the subject and I don't believe the Associate Dean has any power over us. I am however, scared that he can threaten us with fines or suspension if we do not follow his wishes (under the student code of conduct). I am planning to meet with the dean of students after reading week to ask for his help in the matter.


Is there any advice you can give me?

He doesn't have the power. A Faculty member should never have the power to prevent students from meeting to discuss legitimate topics; and from my knowledge of what the investment club used to be (subgroups presenting research and pitching different stocks each week), there's no legitimate reason... IT would be interested to find out the Dean's real concern anyways, because I'm still not understanding that. People are usually motivated by something...

Go to the Ombuds office. Don't go to the Associate Dean. Ombuds will liaise with the Associate Dean for you, on an as-needed basis.

Just google McMaster Ombuds office and set up an appointment...

Wow, thank you for the advice! I will reach out to the ombuds immediately. It is strange that he is threatening us so harshly. He is always on my case with the head of our career services agency. We are not managing real money anymore, so we function as a purely educational entity. I believe that he said we need to be MSU ratified to exist.

Can you provide a little insight on what the ombuds can do? I am a little hesitant on reaching out because if the associate dean finds out he may threaten us with disciplinary action. I am currently trying to reach out to the Dean of Students who may be able to help me as well. Are you 100% sure it is out of the associate dean's power to ban us from operating?


Thanks again for all the help

Do you think you could post one of those offensive emails here (after removing names of course)?

Originally Posted by BrownTown993

Wow, thank you for the advice! I will reach out to the ombuds immediately. It is strange that he is threatening us so harshly. He is always on my case with the head of our career services agency. We are not managing real money anymore, so we function as a purely educational entity. I believe that he said we need to be MSU ratified to exist.

Can you provide a little insight on what the ombuds can do? I am a little hesitant on reaching out because if the associate dean finds out he may threaten us with disciplinary action. I am currently trying to reach out to the Dean of Students who may be able to help me as well. Are you 100% sure it is out of the associate dean's power to ban us from operating?


Thanks again for all the help

You know, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom exists for a reason. Please refer to

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

Section 2c and 2d.

My suggestion is to backup your correspondence with the dean and use it as a dossier. You can stir up a lot of shit if you want to (ie send it to a major national newspaper)

Imo the ombuds really don't have any real power, and the dean deserve real punishment for violating student's right.

The ombuds is specifically meant to be a layer of insulation between you and admin. They are a neutral body that will give you advice regarding situations like this, and will also connect with any part of University admin in order to find out other info, but they are extremely careful to do so anonymously.

If your club is actively seeking partnerships with companies, specifically to arrange co-op jobs for members, that's certainly a reason the dean would push back against the club; however, he still has no right, ultimately.

If internship connections are a by-product of other relations that your club has with companies --- like those companies are sponsoring your club because they want to support the members and have some exposure to members in order to choose extra-curricularly active students --- then well.... That's literally the main reason companies sponsor student groups... They want to support bright students working on extra-curricular projects that would make them more valuable employees.