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My Web Design company.. feedback! :P

 
Old 08-02-2009 at 12:40 AM   #16
macsci
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Good stuff!
Old 08-02-2009 at 12:48 AM   #17
blackdragon
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Thanks

Keep the comments coming. We will be keeping the original dark version, but also have an option for light version we are currently making. Hope that works well!
Old 08-02-2009 at 01:37 AM   #18
deadpool
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You guys have a long way to go, but clearly show that you have fundamentals in place. One thing I suggest is for you to read as much about design and stuff as possible.

I'm a freelance designer with a background in professional web design, and even now, when I'm pretty much doing print design I keep about 55 different graphic and web design on my rss reader to keep up with the latest stuff.

Here's some good stuff to get you started:
http://www.smashingmagazine. com/
http://www.alistapart.com/
http://www.instantshift.com/
http://www.webdesignerheaven .com/

But the main thing is, keep working at it. You'll find that with every subsequent design you'll get better.

--

Some other tips. Find yourself a content-management system that you like. A lot of web developers like using Wordpress. I prefer Expression Engine. It is very customizable and I can code around it very easily.

Also, learn about jQuery and how to use it. It is a javascript library with a lot of really good things that people have written. It will make your life a lot easier and help you with web conventions.

Another thing is to get as much input as possible. Sometimes someone else (trained or otherwise) will have a different set up and sites will look differently thanks to differences in web browsers.

Use code verifiers to make sure that your code is upto standard. Jesus posted the link to the best one.

Finally, using firefox download a tool called YSlow. It is basically an analytics tool from Yahoo which will help you root out the things that slow your website down.

Hope all of this helps!

Edit: Also learn how to write better copy. When you're in communications industry you need to be very good writers and communicators.

Last edited by deadpool : 08-02-2009 at 01:41 AM.

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Old 08-02-2009 at 02:29 AM   #19
RoyK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV View Post
I'm not very impressed with your website. Please take the following as constructive criticism.

On the technical side:
  • I feel there are too many colours and it's hard to focus on the content.
  • The choice of font could be better, Times New Roman seems a bit too plain. On the other hand, Jokerman is difficult to read.
  • Looking at your code, you're using tables for the layout, which is outdated. CSS divs are the way to go nowadays
  • Speaking of CSS, your classes are generically named (i.e. style30). I feel they should bear descriptive names - for example where you use the Jokerman font, instead of the class being called "ki" it shold be named "pageHeader" or something along those lines. Programming classes have taught me from early on that an appropriately named variable saves much time when debugging. The same applies for web-development
  • You're using javascript for your rollovers. They won't work if the person viewing your page has javascript disabled (a wise choice on his or her part in terms of security).
  • What about PHP, ASP, .NET, WEB2.0, SQL, etc?
  • EDIT: check out your home page in IE8. It does not render properly. You will need to test your and your customer's websites in the major browsers (IE6, IE7, IE8, FireFox, Opera, Safari, etc.)
On the business side,
  • You suggest people "Take advantage of these unbeatable prices on all [your] services!" but I haven't found any prices.
  • Along the same lines, in your portfolio, you should describe who the customer was, what were the needs and how did you meet the customer's needs?
  • Please double check your spelling and grammar.
  • I don't know what your sales figures are, but how are "custom buttons" doing?
  • What does the customer get for your Web Hosting packages? (how much storage space? how much bandwidth? how many databases? how many email addresses?) These are things a savvy customer would know to look for.
  • Price plans? How much is this going to cost me?
  • You have a pretty long list of Terms & Conditions...they seem better suited for a contract.
  • EDIT: You need to put the prices on the services page (you mention "Summer Discounts (Until Fall ’09) : As advertised on the Services Page" but there are NO prices on the services page
I think you need to sit down and come up with a business plan. It doesn't have to be extensive, but it should cover the things I've mentioned above (i.e. prices).

As well, keep in mind that a simple design is sometimes years ahead of a flashy and busy design.

Overall, if I was looking for a company to take care of a website (a position I have found myself in before) I would have to pass on BlackDragon designs at the moment.

I do wish you good luck in the future though, always great to see entrepreneurs!
Danny Brings up many good points. I will also bring up some other things that I feel could also be addressed and haven't already been brought up, as well as elaborate on other things.

DESIGN:

The design is all over the place. In general, you seem to apply banners that follow a typical "grunge" style in terms of photoshop tutorials describing it as such. In terms of difficulty and site design, this is a no-no. Not only does it spell "beginner", it is an eye strain and doesn't give a good impression on possible clients.

Secondly, your use of colors is non-complimentary Greens mixing in with Yellows and Reds. It's an eyesore when you've got warm colors trying to mix in with a cooler green color. You should look towards using color palettes that are complimentary, and subtle on the eyes.

FONT COMMENT:
Another big point is the font as it has been mentioned numerously before. Font is _KEY_ to your design. In your design, you simply go with numerous fontstyles, and ignore simplicity. As well, it's wise to consider that not every machine will have a font like "Trajan Pro". What happens when you don't have the font? Your browser will automatically use some default font, and it will most often be very ugly. Because of that, designers typically list of an order of fonts. The browser will go through each font-family from left to right until a specific font is found on the machine.

Illustrating the above, this is an idea of what you are doing, and what it should be:
Code:
/* Some CSS Snippet That you have written */ body{ font-family: "Gill"; } /* If the user doesn't have Gill, tough luck is what your site will illustrate to the viewer. This is not the way to go. instead, use something similar below*/ body{ font-family: Gill, Helvetica, sans-serif }
The general set up is that your "fancier" fonts go first, and the last font listed should ALWAYS be your generic-font family (serif, sans-serif, monospace etc).

While I'm on the topic of fonts, there is actually a well prescribed list of web-safe fonts [here] (W3 is another good site to search around for when it comes to complying to proper web standards). These are the general fonts you want to place on your site, and if you feel the need to go fancy on a banner of header, you could consider using a .gif to get the write text. Remember, you always have to think of the end user, and sometimes, they won't have this totally awesome font that you want to show off.

Ah, and don't go overkill on the fonts. Try and remain consistent. Paragraphs in the same body should typically be the same font throughout, and differences should appear in things like headers and whatnot.

STYLESHEET COMMENTS:

Firstly; you're stylesheet is horrible to follow. As danny mentioned above, the classes are supposed to be named in such a manner that are easy to follow. Assume a client likes the general layout of the design, but feels that a certain margin should be readjusted or any other property for that matter; it will be hard to go back and search for the specific property in question when you have an inherited class called "hjgshjagsd". And I'm quoting your stylesheet on that. It also leaves a bad impression on your client, as it shows general disorganization.

As well, you're cascading sheet is cluttered with extra lines for tons of properties that actually can actually be shortened into one deceleration. Doing so, this generally makes your sheet more organized and is a big plus for yourself when you run around looking for things.

Lastly; you've been using a LOT of inline CSS. That is a "no-no". Never force yourself to use inline, as it's bad coding habbits. There is a heirarchy that css follows, but in general, you should have all your properties declared externally on a seperate css file (or even imported if you need to). But NEVER use inline.

HTML COMMENTS:

There are a few points here. Once again, as Danny mentioned earlier, you've got a bad setup in using a Table for your layout. He is correct in saying this. Not only is this outdated in terms of today's standards, it's highly looked down upon and actually goes against web practice (once again, you can search W3 for this). You should be using divisors throughout your html document, and it should be set up in such a matter that you can make better use of your classes and ID's (not that you have used any); which I will now get into.

You should be able to clarify the difference between when to use a class, and when to use an ID. Classes are used for html elements that are required to look a certain way multiple times (i.e, two paragraphs both have to have a certain color font, font-weight, or some other style). However, you've been using your classes wrong, and in some instances, it's much understandable to use an ID. It doesn't actually make a difference, but it's just proper and responsible coding.

I also noticed that you have points where you have a Table for example that will have two particular paragraphs in one cell. Of this, both paragraphs will have them same class declaration located in your stylesheet. This is a bad habit. You should be making use of inheritance and/or Contextual selectors; For example, you post at one point something like this below

HTML Code:
<td> <p class="style30">Some Text</p> <p class="Style30">Some more text </p>
This is once again, an example of bad practice. Both are elements located within the same table cell, yet your redundantly give them both the same class. Once again, works, but it's much cleaner to have something like so in your stylesheet

Code:
td p { /* some css decleration */ }
The above saves a whole lot of time (and space!) by targeting all paragraph elements within table cells. Since you essentially have paragraphs all acting the same, it makes sense to save on pointless bog down for your site's html file.

Another weird thing that i noticed is that sometimes you will use a class on a certain html element, but following the class declaration, you will use inline css that targets the same properties targeted in the class, making it utterly pointless in some cases. What I basically mean is that you'll have some paragraph that calls upon class "style20" for example, which targets the font-color. But immediately after this, you will use inline css to target the color directly on your html file, changing it to some other color. Of course, cascading being a highlight in ccs, the inline css takes higher priority over any external css in the hierarchy.

OTHER COMMENTS:
  • I noticed that on your site, you do not list the specific skills that you and your partner possess. For example, what sort of languages do you know of? (X)Html, CSS and Java seem to be your particular forte; however, this is very limited, any clients sometiems look for people that are familiar with using MySQL and PHP, much like Danny said. If you guys come to a point where you're really serious about it, you should considering downloading WAMP/LAMP/MAMP (Windows/Linux/Mac - respectively - Apache MySQL PHP/Perl/Python); a free program environment that focus' on dynamic web pages (because HTML is static fyi). You can run it as a localhost, and practice the languages as well as database management.
  • From a personal standpoint, your designer should work more to expand his particular style. His or Her designs (from the forum signatures provided in your portfolio) are very generic and hold the same feel to most of them. A designer needs to be flexible sometimes in order to meet with specific customer needs.
  • Be careful with PHP though~ for the inexperienced novice, you can open a ton of security loop holes for websites. Practice makes perfect though!
  • While you're at it, why not look into Content Management Systems (CMS) in the long run? Things like Drupal or even Wordpress(which you've already been tinkering with from what I read on your site) are fantastic examples of CMS that add a ton of functionality that you can offer to your clients.
  • There are a ton of sites that you should consider looking towards when you're doing web dev. Remember, sometimes it's good to see what a lot of big names are doing in the industry. Of course, don't copy their work, but it's good to have a heads up of what's exactly "in" and "out". Just like the modern day world, websites need to sometimes adapt to trends based on what product or service you are trying to offer. To set you off, try a site like Veerle.Duoh. Veerle is a Belgium designer, and she's a pretty notable designer in the industry. She provides a ton of comments on certain aspects about webdesign, and even provides a load of tutorials for css and photoshop/illustrator
  • Consider expanding your knowledge in languages, and even continuing your knowledge of CSS and (X)HTML. Tons of others provide a bunch of insight, and you'll be surprised at what you can learn outside of what you might already have a firm grasp on.
  • Lastly, jumping on the comic-sans bandwagon, let me quote a designer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Collision
"...Comic Sans is a bit of a joke... any websites using Comic Sans tend to have that 'My First Web site' feel about them."
Simon Collision, author of Beginning CSS Web Development: From Novice to Professional

Closing Comment:
Web design ain't easy. It's a brutal industry, and tons of people do it but don't get far. However, if you feel you got an idea to make it far, the dedication to study and learn, you can hopefully pull of a succesful business. They say webdesign ain't the most lucrative profession (considering so many people do it), but what makes it special is the passion that people have for it. Hell, who knows; if you're passionate enough, it might even pay off for you. Regardless, best of luck and please don't take the massive wall of text above as a stab at ya. It's supposed to be constructive, and hopefully it will help you out!

-Cheers
__________________
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Last edited by RoyK : 08-02-2009 at 02:54 AM.

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Old 08-02-2009 at 02:51 AM   #20
Chad
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Just to add to the already posted constructive criticisms (which I completely agree with), I think the biggest things for me are:

- Colours: red/black/darkness. Not good choices for a corporate site. It has been proven psychologically that lighter, more cheerful colours will make your customers feel better about trusting you, your services, and want to buy. Stay away from reds, try more blues and greens.

- Google Adsense. Why on earth would you advertise competitors on your site? Google Adsense bases their ads on keywords on your site. So all the ads shown in that footer box are ads for competitors who do cheap web design! You're just sending all your customers away to them in exchange for a measly few pennies per click. Remove AdSense immediately, it brings down your credibility and makes the site look tacky.

- Tables. Tables make the site look old school. If someone is looking for web design, they are going to want the latest and greatest in design. That means css and xhtml, standards compliant. It isn't hard to learn, and can actually give you a lot more flexibility as designers, I suggest visiting http://www.csslicingguide.co m/ for a nice tutorial on it. CSS is fun!

As for the rest, read the above comments by other users. I think you guys are off to a great start, and while there are some things to fix, you've also made some smart choices... having that Quote page is definitely a smart idea. I didn't used to have a quote page on my portfolio site and after adding one it definitely helps learn more about your customer before they commit.

Web design is a fun and exciting business if you're passionate about it and dedicated to make your business work... I remember when I was first starting out and learning new things was the best part. When you get your first few big clients it's going to be really great, but keep in mind that clients won't come to you.... especially if you're just starting out. You need to seek them and build up a reputation with a very strong portfolio. In order to do that, start browsing around web design job sites (I list one below) and get clients that way, post in web design forums, make your presence known without spamming your company url around. Build up trust in the web design community and eventually you'll have a shot at success.

As starting web designers going into the freelance business I suggest checking these sites out:

FreelanceSwitch (good read with advice for beginners)

GetAFreelancer (to find jobs you can do to build that portfolio)

12 Breeds Of Clients and how to work with them

Design inspiration for CSS
http://www.cssbeauty.com/gallery/
http://www.csselite.com/
http://www.cssbreeze.com/
Old 08-02-2009 at 04:49 AM   #21
lawleypop
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Most everything has already been said, especially in great details by a few members.

The thing that bothers me most is the colour scheme. Not only do the colours clash, but it just looks unprofessional. It looks like colours that 12 year old boys would choose for a design based on a video game. It just reminds me of Halo or something like that.

colourlovers.com is a good place to find some colour schemes.

Although people have commented on your use of tables (and they're right), I don't think anyone has given you credited with centering your layout. That's a good start.

Also, while some people still recommend coding a layout for smaller resolutions, your layout is just a tiny bit too wide for 1024x768. I'd at least code it for 1024x768.
Old 08-02-2009 at 11:14 AM   #22
deadpool
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http://styl.eti.me/design/color-scheming-for-designers/
Old 08-02-2009 at 01:07 PM   #23
blackdragon
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Hmm. It was designed in 1024 x 768 so it shouldnt be too big.

Either way, the newer version we are working on will be 1024 x 600 compatible
Old 08-02-2009 at 10:25 PM   #24
sew12
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I sincerely hope a couple of the posters in this thread were lying just to be nice.

I would never pay for web design service from a company whose website looks like that.

I'm not trying to be rude at all but it is a very visually unappealing website.

Lots of great constructive criticism has been posted so I won't go on and on but I would definitely suggest you follow it. The website needs a lot of improvement if you want people to pay good money for your services.
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Old 08-02-2009 at 11:45 PM   #25
myoozik
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Great job overall and it is always admirable when anyone has enough confidence to start up a business.

The technical stuff has been mentioned before, but really the main thing you should take away is to improve the aesthetics of your website. The skill is there, but it takes ages to perfect a visually appealing design. As Rohan and Chad have mentioned, start looking at other web design websites and look at what you're up against.

To be honest, the old school photoshop filters and effects are looking really outdated, so I suggest trying to adjust your taste to something more long-lasting and modern. Not to say that nobody likes this style anymore, but you will definitely benefit from expanding your design style.

Overall a great effort, and your appreciation for input (constructive or otherwise) is awesomely humbling.



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