Please try not to derail this thread. I am currently not an organ donor since I have never thought about it too much, so I am interested in seeing the reasons why other people have done it.

Although my reason is "irrational", I have never liked the idea of donating just because I don't like the idea of removing organs from my body (even if I am dead).

Although I am seeing what others say, what annoys me is the people that try to guilt trip you into doing it and just get over being creeped out because they do. The way it sounds is that some people look down on others that don't donate because they have no plans/aren't comfortable at this moment, and it rather the guilt trip works or they just get pissed off at the person and just throw away any argument because the person is being a prick. Although most don't do this, the few that do make everyone else look bad.

Just an example, nearly everyone from where I am from is atheist, and there was one really outspoken guy who obnoxiously tried to shove religion down everyone throats. The result? I actually hated religious establishments and had a very negative view since I thought everyone was like him. It wasn't till I met some other people who through religion, were very happy and kind people, that my opinion changed.

Summary is, if you want people to donate, say some good reasons but shoving the idea out will turn them off the idea. I used to be a blood donor (my blood pressure is currently too low) so I am open to the idea, but I am not comfortable with the idea quite yet

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

Well I'd have to go completely off topic to address that... but for good reference read "Selfish Genes", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene-ce...of_evol ution

And specifically do your cells (say in your kidney) not replicate in the recipient? That's a new copy of that gene and thus a propagation of it through a generation.

Does anyone donate or not donate for this reason? No... but as I said, many decisions we make are not strictly rational or irrational. I was simply poiting out that I have not head a rational reason (who knows I might have from that article above, but I'll have to read it first)

If you're interested in this sort of stuff, I would suggest that the gene centered view of evolution isn't reductive enough, and that you can look at it at a molecular/atomic level as well, and possibly even past that as well.

Originally Posted by Fight0

Like I said, that's only one perspective on rational. A deeper evaluation of what rational means would make you question a lot. A simple first stop could be Descartes.

I am a religious individual, but at the same time understand what current evolutionary theory is. I got my fair share of 12's in evolution based biology courses here at Mac, have read Darwin, The Selfish Gene etc. However I have had religious experiences that to me represent truth far more than other forms of reasoning. That is my "rational", but at the same time I realize that this would not seem logical to some other people as well. The spirit of the debate for me then is tolerance.

Great you can hold that view, but that doesn't make your decisions rational. By definition faith is faith without evidence. So from an evolutionary point of view you are forgoing propagation of your genes in hopes of a no evidence based belief that will not help your genes. But again, obviously no one thinks like that (survival machine vs genes dictating which Im sure you are aware of), people don't think rationally all the time. That's fine... you are welcome to your opinon and your own decisions.

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

Well I'd have to go completely off topic to address that... but for good reference read "Selfish Genes", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene-ce...of_evol ution

And specifically do your cells (say in your kidney) not replicate in the recipient? That's a new copy of that gene and thus a propagation of it through a generation.

Does anyone donate or not donate for this reason? No... but as I said, many decisions we make are not strictly rational or irrational. I was simply poiting out that I have not head a rational reason (who knows I might have from that article above, but I'll have to read it first)

Well maybe the reason you haven't heard any rational reasons is because the rational reason you suggest is, like you said, moot.

Honestly, I don't even understand why you continue to argue your point when you keep emphasizing that nobody thinks like this. This isn't even a debate about whether or not a religious belief to hold on to your organs is rational anymore; this is a debate about your extreme definition of rational.

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

Great you can hold that view, but that doesn't make your decisions rational. By definition faith is faith without evidence. So from an evolutionary point of view you are forgoing propagation of your genes in hopes of a no evidence based belief that will not help your genes. But again, obviously no one thinks like that (survival machine vs genes dictating which Im sure you are aware of), people don't think rationally all the time. That's fine... you are welcome to your opinon and your own decisions.

What evidence is there that you are not some butterfly's dream? A belief in the world as it is and what others hold as religious beliefs are the same thing. When there is no anchor to what is rational, all beliefs become faith. What you call rational is relative to other beliefs you are taking for granted.

Originally Posted by MichaelScarn

Well maybe the reason you haven't heard any rational reasons is because the rational reason you suggest is, like you said, moot.

Honestly, I don't even understand why you continue to argue your point when you keep emphasizing that nobody thinks like this. This isn't even a debate about whether or not a religious belief to hold on to your organs is rational anymore; this is a debate about your extreme definition of rational.

I thought it had become a debate about semantics mostly...

i'm not an organ donor yet, but i want to be. i remember getting my driver's license (or some kind of government card) and my dad was with me.
government guy asked me if i wanted to be an organ donor
dad's response (before i could even process what was going on): NO!
lol.
so yeah, ill end up filling in those papers soon, but first i need to have a discussion with my dad about the entire thing. he obviously has very strong opinions about organ donation (not sure what they are)... i would hate to die (obv) and have him grappling with my decision to donate my organs.

First you said:

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

To your first point, sure if you actually know that your organs (some or all) are not useful for donation purposes, that is a rational reason not to donate your organs.

Later on you said:

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

But I have not heard a rational reason not to donate your organs.

You need to make up your mind.

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

But how about this for rational thinking. Humans are living organisms. Life is dominated by evolution, and the "purpose" (for lack of a much better word) of evolution is propegation of genes through generations. Each gene wants to live as long as possible... wouldn't donating an organ that carries those genes be the ultimate elongation of their life? Even if we assume that the organ never gets donated again, the genes lived on for just a bit longer. Obviously not something natural selection can act upon, but that's besides the point, the genes still lived on longer and were able to replicate copies of themselves. That's what I mean by a rational argument...

You can't make up your own scenarios to explain what you think "rational" means. The meaning of the word is independent of whatever situation you can think of.

Originally Posted by Fight0

And more generally, anyone who thinks that there is one "rational" response in every scenario needs a good introduction to philosophy.

Right on.

Some people may not donate their organs because they don't like the thought of their organs being removed from their body after death.

To see why you should be an organ donor, imagine you just suffered an accident and are desperately in need of an organ transplant. Wouldn't you then wish someone donated you their organ?

Originally Posted by Alexmahone

Some people may not donate their organs because they don't like the thought of their organs being removed from their body after death.

To see why you should be an organ donor, imagine you just suffered an accident and are desperately in need of an organ transplant. Wouldn't you then wish someone donated you their organ?

I think that most people wish that. In fact, that wish might lead people to avoid donating organs. You never know what goes though people's minds.

Slightly off topic but it is quite interesting: Some of the highest organ donation rates in the world are in Europe. Many European countries have a presumed consent program. So you have to opt out of donating rather than opt in like in Canada.

Could it be that people are just too lazy to change whatever the default is? Or maybe it is just a lack of information?

In before religion bashing... oh wait...

Organs for transport are in short supply...and those that do exist for use can either be incompatible, or decay before people make up their minds. I actually believe that if you don't at least make an effort to be an organ donor, you ARE an immoral person. Is having a few buggered up organs because of a condition or medication a legitimate reason? Maybe. Is not opting in because of a particular interpretation some stone age doctrine a good reason? Not really. Might as well opt out of modern medicine while you're at it!

People can be opposed to giving up things like tissue, blood, and organs, but when it comes to actually needing them, they're all FOR part-swapping..

Sorry for any offence

Originally Posted by Eternal Fire

I think that most people wish that. In fact, that wish might lead people to avoid donating organs.

How in the world?

Gods, what the hell did this thread turn into? Can't we ever have a non-runaway discussion on this site?

I stopped reading at about page 3 because the replies were getting too long, but to Lauren, Rayine, Amardeep, and the others who keep pushing the "what's your reason for not donating?", "religion is not a reason" arguments, what the hell is your problem?

I too personally believe everyone should attempt to donate their organs, and while I personally dislike that people would not donate because of religion, you don't just go around essentially interrogating people like that. You guys sound like children nagging their parents until they give in out of exhaustion and exasperation.

People don't need a reason to not donate. And they certainly don't need to justify it to any of you guys. They aren't obliged to, and they're not automatically a bad person if they don't. Immoral – maybe, maybe not – that's a matter of personal opinion.. And if they choose not to because of religion, then so be it! Telling them that their reason is invalid over and over again wouldn't change anything. Even if you don't agree with them (as I do), at least have some respect.

I'm sure we can all do a ****ton more to help others that are lesser off, and I'm sure there are many avenues to do so that won't take much effort from us, but we don't. Humans are instinctually selfish in certain regards (I don't mean that in a negative way).

Live and let live.
_

EDIT: And educate. But don't drive people away.

EDIT 2: Lastly, if it's okay to ask...

For those of you who can't donate because of religion reasons, I'm curious as to what religions actually do forbid organ donation. It might be best to reply to me (please) via PM, as I don't want to fuel the ongoing disrespect and agitation.

Originally Posted by doppelganger

Or maybe it is just a lack of information?

This is it. Organ donation is a very, very unknown matter. While we often hear about people needing an organ transplant, very very few people every consider, or have reason to consider actually donating their own organs due to ack of advertisement and awareness.

There needs to be more public "campaigns" (for lack of a better term, as I hate the ongoing trend of campaigning and awareness for everything that exists) outlining the pros and lack of cons of organ donation. Explain the procedure, explain what happens to your organs upon death, and explain how many people you can save and how many families you can comfort.