Hi, on my account balance it says that I owe $110 as an orientation fee.

Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't remember this being a part of your tuition fee and I didn't attend orientation either.

Could be this be an error or something along those lines? Or is it mandatory for first years to pay for this regardless of whether they attend it or not?

I believe that $110 is for this year's macpass during frosh week. It was mandatory for first years this year so you have to pay it.

lmfao poor first years

Yup. Mandatory for frosh week whether you participated or not.

I would seriously challenge that. It passed extremely narrowly (by photographic analysis of voting) in last year's MSU general meeting. I would withhold that part o the payment until you speak to someone in Accounts and Cashiers. It isn't right what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Alomar12

I would seriously challenge that. It passed extremely narrowly (by photographic analysis of voting) in last year's MSU general meeting. I would withhold that part of the payment until you speak to someone in Accounts and Cashiers. It isn't right what they are doing.

Regardless of the margin by which it passed, it still passed, and it's not up to Student Accounts and Cashiers to do anything about it. They don't decide what fees each student has to pay, those decisions are made elsewhere in the university.

It was voted in as a mandatory fee, so isn't much you can do about it.

That was the lowest thing MSU had done...

Originally Posted by Snowman

It was voted in as a mandatory fee, so isn't much you can do about it.

There is one thing you can do about it. Not pay it. This is a matter of principle. Go to the MSU office and to Student Accounts and Cashiers and speak to them about it. If they won't reverse it, withhold that portion of the payment on your bill. The only way to change something that is incredibly wrong is to be acknowledged. If more students participated in this action, at some point something would get done.

Simply paying it does nothing to solve the problem for you and allows the problem to be transferred onto future students. I really wish more first-years understood this.

Originally Posted by Alomar12

There is one thing you can do about it. Not pay it. This is a matter of principle. Go to the MSU office and to Student Accounts and Cashiers and speak to them about it. If they won't reverse it, withhold that portion of the payment on your bill. The only way to change something that is incredibly wrong is to be acknowledged. If more students participated in this action, at some point something would get done.

Simply paying it does nothing to solve the problem for you and allows the problem to be transferred onto future students. I really wish more first-years understood this.

I thought they withheld your grades if you don't pay, and interest accumulates?

The thing which I realized you could do, is set forth a motion next year at the General Meeting (the same one that voted it in) and ask it to be repelled

Yes, that would be another option although it would not effect this year's crop of first-years. As for with-holding grades, I'm not sure if taht woudl even be leagal. Thi s is essentially a form of extortion.

It's in the university contract that you signed when you accepted your offer to McMaster. If you have outstanding fees at the end of the year you don't get your grades released.

Originally Posted by Alomar12

Yes, that would be another option although it would not effect this year's crop of first-years. As for with-holding grades, I'm not sure if taht woudl even be leagal. Thi s is essentially a form of extortion.

It's not extortion. You owe the university money. You chose to go here, you pay what they require you to pay, and then they give you what you paid for. It's the same for graduation, you will not get your diploma/transcript nor will they confirm to anyone who asks whether or not you successfully completed the requirements for graduation. You are paying for an education, sure, but at the end of the day that is reflected in grades and a diploma. All of these "sanctions" are published, they're not secret, it's your responsibility to read and know them. By attending McMaster, you state that you agree.

This says nothing about whether or not I think the policy is right, but it is what it is and it shouldn't come as a surprise to you since you are a student here.

Also, something to consider--the reason this was implemented was to give the organizers a predictable (and larger) amount of money to work with, while at the same time reducing the cost per student for those that attend. In that way, it is similar to the HSR bus pass--it benefits more students than it does not, therefore we keep it. The organizers for this past Welcome Week knew exactly how much money they would get, because of this new bylaw/rule/whatever, and spent accordingly. If everybody were to decide after the fact not to pay, then what? It's not the organizers' fault that some people chose not to go to WW, or that the rules changed to make the fee mandatory. It's the fault of the student population in general--everybody who either went to the General Assembly and voted for the change, and everyone who did not go who was against the change. I understand that first-years didn't have the option of voting, but by coming here they essentially agreed to abide by whatever rules were in place.

There is a major difference between HSR and WW fees. HSR fees are the result of a contract with an outside organization. WW fees are not. As you say they are used to arrange welcome week events and "to allow everyone access". How much of the money actually is spent on Welcome Week? That is a number I would like to see, but they will never make it public, presumably because the students would be appalled at the figure.

It all goes back to which portion of the student body is being punished. Previously, a limited number of MacPasses were available. McMaster did a poor job of communicating information about them to the students and some people missed out on events. They sold out of passes quite regularly, so the excuse that they didn't know how much money they had really doesn't fly. McMaster heard the students' complaints about missing out and saw it as a great opportunity. Rather than communicate more effectively (in acceptance/orientation packages, on the website, etc.), they decided to take the onus off the students to seek the information by automatically charging them for it with no chance to opt out. They have no regard for the fact that some students choose not to attend welcome week, while some simply are unable to for whatever reason. Why should some students be punished for what they are not using instead of lazy students who fail to take appropriate action (i.e. buy a MacPass)? We are able to opt out of the health and dental insurance (which is also, conveniently, poorly advertised - SEP 30 deadline!) which, like the bus pass could possibly have some benefit.

I find this quite maddening that students can opt out of insurance, but not out of what is essentially an amusement tax funding events that they may not even participate in. I understand it is in the contract for McMaster, but the legality of it certainly seems to be open to challenge.