[arathbon]

Originally Posted by nerual

By coming to McMaster, you accept responsibility for getting yourself here Monday through Saturday. There are far too many students with such a diversity that it's really not practical to make alternative arrangements for every possibility. Increasing carpooling and making parking temporarily cheaper are alternatives that are relatively simple and straightforward to implement. What exactly is it that you would like the university to do? They're warning you there might be a strike, so it's up to individual students to make whatever alternate arrangements are most feasible for whatever their situation happens to be. Like, what, HSR strikes so they should cancel classes? How is that fair to everyone who pays their tuition and is able to get themselves to campus? I take HSR every day too, and I will be inconvenienced by a strike, but really, it's up to the student to get themselves to the university. Some things, such as emailing in assignments, could be easily done but that sort of thing is up to the instructor of a course, not a university-wide mandate. They can recommend that an instructor adjust the format of their course, but it's ultimately up to the instructor. They can't mandate that, for example, all iclicker questions aren't allowed to count for marks during a strike. That's also not fair to all students who do show up, because that weight will get put elsewhere (probably on a test/exam).

Well I understand the "Wouldn't be fair issue" it's also not fair to the large number of students disadvantaged by the strike. If you're unable to attend an assessment due to illness an accommodation is
made, it should be the same for other factors beyond your control. What if MacLive (the video conferencing service) can provide quizes? Wouldn't that be a way to ensure that everything is fair? Not every student can afford to live near the University or a car. There are ways to at least reduce the problems as I outlined. Most students living far off campus I know would benefit more from them than having more carpooling space and better drop off areas. Even if the University worked on a temporary shelter for off campus students (maybe in one of the gyms). Quite frankly I doubt they do anything, but of course you are just a number to them. And that's what pisses me off the most. If the University cared, they would be bending over backwards (within reason, no one is suggesting they cancel classes, or refund tuition) to make sure students got a quality education.

[arathbon]

Originally Posted by J. Dorey

From Twitter, retweeted by the Hamilton Spectator:

"#hamont City has announced they reached tentative deal with union representing HSR drivers and employees early Saturday."

Hopefully this deal gets hammered out, and us SOCS students aren't left scrambling for ways to get ourselves to school!

Thank God. Still very unsatisfied with the University's response, but I'm glad the union and city were able to come to a compromise in the benefits of all Hamilton residents.

[nerual]

Originally Posted by arathbon

Well I understand the "Wouldn't be fair issue" it's also not fair to the large number of students disadvantaged by the strike. If you're unable to attend an assessment due to illness an accommodation is
made, it should be the same for other factors beyond your control. What if MacLive (the video conferencing service) can provide quizes? Wouldn't that be a way to ensure that everything is fair? Not every student can afford to live near the University or a car. There are ways to at least reduce the problems as I outlined. Most students living far off campus I know would benefit more from them than having more carpooling space and better drop off areas. Even if the University worked on a temporary shelter for off campus students (maybe in one of the gyms). Quite frankly I doubt they do anything, but of course you are just a number to them. And that's what pisses me off the most. If the University cared, they would be bending over backwards (within reason, no one is suggesting they cancel classes, or refund tuition) to make sure students got a quality education.

I honestly don't understand why they should. Set up a temporary shelter?! That would never happen, and it doesn't seem remotely feasible, particularly with all the legal issues surrounding allowing an unlimited number of students to sleep in a confined area. Accidents (or not-accidents) can happen, people can get hurt and who is responsible if someone does, not everyone can fit and how do you decide who gets a spot and who doesn't, etc. That is in no way a practical solution.
At the end of the day, it's not up to the university to make sure you can get to school. They're quite clear on that, and I don't really understand why it should be their responsibility.

As a side note, I am glad they reached a tentative agreement. That's really the best case scenario.

[arathbon]

Originally Posted by nerual

I honestly don't understand why they should. Set up a temporary shelter?! That would never happen, and it doesn't seem remotely feasible, particularly with all the legal issues surrounding allowing an unlimited number of students to sleep in a confined area. Accidents (or not-accidents) can happen, people can get hurt and who is responsible if someone does, not everyone can fit and how do you decide who gets a spot and who doesn't, etc. That is in no way a practical solution.
At the end of the day, it's not up to the university to make sure you can get to school. They're quite clear on that, and I don't really understand why it should be their responsibility.

As a side note, I am glad they reached a tentative agreement. That's really the best case scenario.

So you'd rather they all just set up camp in MUSC? Accidents will happen then anyways.

And also I'm not saying they have a legal responsibility to do anything. But this is why people say "I am just a number to the University". If they expect students to do stuff for them (like donate when they go out and earn), rate them highly on surveys, recommend them to others etc. then they should treat their students like people.

Why don't you address any of the other proposals I mentioned? Why are these unfeasible?

No of course "It's your own fault if you can't live in close proximity to the University or own a car and I don't see why anyone should give a damn". That's how both you and the University come off, and that's why I, as a student who pays a large amount of money to the University, feel a bit pissed off. The University can't claim to care about students if they ignore the clear needs of students.

Imagine if you (and many people you know) were suddenly unable to attend your classes on a regular basis due to factors beyond your control. Try and put yourself in someone else's situation rather than the situation of someone who had the good fortune to be able to live on res and then in close proximity to the University. What would you want the University to do? Make a reasonable attempt to accommodate or give you effectively the finger and laugh all the way to the bank now that they get to keep a few thousand bucks without having to provide any service to you.

[arathbon]

Perhaps my last response was too harsh.

But consider this.

When your phone company acts like they don't care when you have a problem even if it wasn't their fault how do you feel? Most people I know would get either angry (I pay good money and I deserve good customer service) or dissatisfied (Gee, I mean I know its not their fault, but I kinda wish they would at least act like they care). How much do you pay for your phone service? How much do you pay in tuition?

I'm not going to argue that the University is legally obligated to help you. They aren't, no one thinks they are. In fact I don't even think morally they are either. But here's how I would feel about the following responses:

1) Temporary Shelter+ accommodations with respect to class attendance --> Absolutely ecstatic. Whichever admin signed off on this is my new favorite person. Might write a letter to The Spec saying how awesome McMaster is, and that the City should strive to treat taxpayers like the University treats students.
2) Accommodations with respect to class attendance --> Satisfied. Would recommend to family and friends, telling them that sure strikes happen like everywhere, but McMaster cared enough to try and help the students out.
3) No response. There may be a strike. McMaster states they encourage both sides to work together. --> Dissatisfied. It'd be nice if Mac did something, but I guess I'll just have to deal with it somehow. Wouldn't make me recommend Mac, but wouldn't make me feel all that inclined to either.
4) A response that only helps those who aren't fully dependent on buses, and doesn't require much effort, meanwhile acting like they've moved mountains to make it happened --> Angry. No one likes to feel like they're being sold a turd dressed up as gold. If they could make some minor adjustments for those with cars, why can't they at least implement (or explain why they can't implement) relatively minor adjustments for those without?

Do you see what I'm saying?

[Afzal]

I'm pretty sure Mac can afford to pull a Hogwarts and convert the MUSC Atrium into a sleeping place at night time and then convert it back early morning. Sure, it's not as convenient as waking up at 11pm but it's something.

Same goes for a bunch of other places on campus.

Anyway, I live 7 minutes from campus so it won't have an affect on me with regards to attending class. It's my extra-curriculars that might be affected.

I just wish there was a better solution to the employee's problems so that they don't have to go on strikes every other year.

[mohammyt]

yay?

[jim1]

Originally Posted by ak21

lol...according to google maps it will take 1.5 hours for me...and walking back home will suck even more (up the mountain)...

For me it says 1 hr and 14 minutes, but doubt it, since it takes 30 min to walk to stm lol (and i live on upper paradise ) , let alone mac

[anonanon987]

Originally Posted by mohammyt

yay?

That's awesome! I guess I can cancel my plan of waking 1 hour 25 minutes earlier than normal to make it to school on time.

[Kathy2]

I don't know why that Twitter says "no strike". A tentative deal is just that - tentative. I'm pretty sure there could still be a strike unless it is finalized.

[nerual]

Originally Posted by arathbon

Perhaps my last response was too harsh.

But consider this.

When your phone company acts like they don't care when you have a problem even if it wasn't their fault how do you feel? Most people I know would get either angry (I pay good money and I deserve good customer service) or dissatisfied (Gee, I mean I know its not their fault, but I kinda wish they would at least act like they care). How much do you pay for your phone service? How much do you pay in tuition?

I'm not going to argue that the University is legally obligated to help you. They aren't, no one thinks they are. In fact I don't even think morally they are either. But here's how I would feel about the following responses:

1) Temporary Shelter+ accommodations with respect to class attendance --> Absolutely ecstatic. Whichever admin signed off on this is my new favorite person. Might write a letter to The Spec saying how awesome McMaster is, and that the City should strive to treat taxpayers like the University treats students.
2) Accommodations with respect to class attendance --> Satisfied. Would recommend to family and friends, telling them that sure strikes happen like everywhere, but McMaster cared enough to try and help the students out.
3) No response. There may be a strike. McMaster states they encourage both sides to work together. --> Dissatisfied. It'd be nice if Mac did something, but I guess I'll just have to deal with it somehow. Wouldn't make me recommend Mac, but wouldn't make me feel all that inclined to either.
4) A response that only helps those who aren't fully dependent on buses, and doesn't require much effort, meanwhile acting like they've moved mountains to make it happened --> Angry. No one likes to feel like they're being sold a turd dressed up as gold. If they could make some minor adjustments for those with cars, why can't they at least implement (or explain why they can't implement) relatively minor adjustments for those without?

Do you see what I'm saying?

Not really. I think it's more wishful thinking. Sure, it would be nice if they gave temp shelter/accommodations, but it is not feasible for a number of reasons, both legal and logistical. Even if they really really wanted to, it would not happen. I'm not saying camping out in MUSC is a better option, but by sanctioning a designated place for students to sleep, the university is taking legal responsibility for whatever may happen there and ensuring it's safe, etc.

Accomodations wrt class attendance are class specific, and need to be done in a way that does not disadvantage anyone, including those that can go to class. Thus, it cannot be done in a blanket policy at a university-wide level, but rather is the responsibility of the prof. As I said before, the university can encourage these changes, and offer suggestions, but it is not realistic for them to have a blanket policy that applies to all courses since all courses are different.

I think it's extremely selfish that you'd rather no response rather than some effort to help people who have the option of driving but usually take HSR. This is likely geared more towards employees of the university, whose livelihood and ability to support themselves and their families depends on them being able to get to the university in a reasonable manner. There are relatively straightforward solutions to help this group of people, so why shouldn't they? Just because there aren't equally easy solutions to help another group of people?

Also, your thinking is extremely flawed that anyone who does not rely on HSR to get to school is priviledged with extra money or whatever. Many people commute from home and take GO, and are unaffected by the strike. These people would still be able to get to campus if HSR striked. You don't even have to have a lot of money to live close to campus. Please don't make assumptions like that. As I said before, there is extreme diversity in the situations of people affected by the strike, therefore different options make sense to them. There is also diversity in the situations of people less affected by the strike, so don't paint everyone with the same brush.

[xo.monica]

There can't be a strike, I have a midterm Monday morning. :(

According to google maps, it would take me an hour and 45 minutes to walk to school.. perfeccct

[julianface]

ride a bike, jog, or carpool

[akikokoyoki]

There is no strike guys, according to this website:

http://whereisthebus.ca/

[xo.monica]

Originally Posted by julianface

ride a bike, jog, or carpool

lol I don't have a bike, but I am trying to figure out a way to get there on time, perhaps get a ride with a friend.
jogging =showing up to midterm hot and sweaty, yuuck!