First year engineering here.

I didn't went to Canadian high school for a long time (just one school year) before getting into Mac. I think it is the responsibility on students knowing the fact that Wiki is not a trustworthy source for academic purpose, no matter they were taught this in highschool or not. It might be a convenient source for conceptualizing on theories (but they are usually too formal to understood by 1st year student, though), but not for essays. On the other hand, profs should stress on this issue more in classes.

I think we have to know where we can use wiki, and where we can't. A friend of mine, who is a PhD student said he loves wiki, but he never used wiki sources in his assignments.

The habit comes from the teaching methods that are carried through grade school and highschool. Students are used to having things handed to them on a platter, and the work load in these younger grades often do not even push for excessive work periods outside of the classroom (i.e homework, assignments, etc). This correlates to the attitude you see after in university. Students do not even know how to fend for themselves, and they're often asking for answers rather than solving them. I myself, admittingly, was like this first term, but I quickly learned how wrong of an approach this was.

I've learned that profs can only go so far, and it requires a combination of schooling, studying, and reading from the text and or other sources (like webct lecture notes). I'm guilty for not going to class, but that's only because I feel that it doesn't help me too much because I don't have that great of a memory when things are taught to me, and I've gotta do things out of practice. That's what it is really; Some students retain that laziness depending on their attitude towards the course. But those students who come in lazy and really feel like they've got to pick up the slack to strive for what they want to do most - they can change for the better provided they try. Honestly, that rough transition has taught me lots in terms of fending for myself and not to depends on others to give me straight answers (to a degree, you gotta ask questions too!). Instead, you gotta try and tackle a challenge before calling for help.

So In all, I agree with the general synopsis of the article, though i stopped reading half way as I found it a bit winded.

I don't think you can blame only the high school system, or the universities or the student. It is kind of a combination. It is really a joke how easy high school is, you can do so well and be rewarded for barely trying. But that's wrong when you have so many more students going into university now, and they have barely changed the curriculum. I think that's why they have so many 'survey' or 'intro' courses in first year, at least in Humanities... so that they can make sure they we know all of the concepts we need to continue on, when we should probably know a lot of it already.

But a lot of it really depends on the motivation of the student as well, and I don't think it's up to high school to teach students discipline and puncuality. You have to learn that for yourself. I read the book mentioned in the article, Ivory Tower Blues by James Cote. I remember he had this category of student he called 'The Holding Pen Student' for students who basically go to university because they don't know what else to do. I understand that it is hard now that there is so much pressure to get a degree to be successful, but I think it's really sad that so many students come unprepared and unmotivated, get so caught up in the social experience and don't really care about their education.

Profs Thinks Students Not Prepared

oh shut up

It was a typo. Unfortunately I can't fix it.

That's also a big problem with society. Everyone thinks that university is the only option, the only way to make a living. I'm not sure what the high schools are doing now, but I know that the year I graduated my school was starting to show the option of trades. I think trades are dismissed too quickly in this day and age. I believe almost all trades are in high demand and some of them make pretty good money. (electricians, plumbers, chefs) Not to mention that these are services and they will always be a job somewhere... Although this only works for people that are good with their hands.

But yeah, just saying that university isn't the only option out there and I think society stresses university too much.

This also comes from parenting too. Teachers seem more and more to have to parent instead of teach especially early on. that doesnt leave room for the discipline and understanding that punishment or parenting might give. teachers can not go into really diciplning like a parent legally but are often left to teach "unparented" children.
for example the globe had an article where parents consulted their children on everything and did not boundries. this might be ok when they are older but asking a 4 year old if they feel like going to bed instead of making a bed time seems like lazy parenting to me.

and then you have people who dont recognize limits and courtesy such as due dates and this is likely what is causing the change in the schooling curriculum.

...unlike many posters here, I felt that highschool was almost adequate- maybe a few more big projects would have been good but overall workload isnt horrid.
of course I know others who got by without doing alot of the route work so they might feel rather overwhelmed with uni work..

High school is different for everyone, especially since high schools differ between themselves. I find the teaching style in high school much different than that of university. I also found the workload weak in highschool. Although I don't hate the workload in university, I quite like it, it can be quite heavy at times.

Not everyone learns the same way and its hard to accomodate this fact because there are so many students in one class. Although Dr. Jacobs did do a good job in addressing those who learn visually and those who learn conceptually. But there are a lot more ways that people learn.

*drags thread up from the grave*

I don't think it's fair to lump all first year university students together, especially since I've had to listen to upper year students bitching about but that proportionally most of us have learned to suck it up.

I remember when mac-central.com was still around someone kept on complaining about how they did bad in their labs because their TA was racist -- with no fault on their own. Instead they should've focused that energy into taking the comments to heart and improving their lab writing.

All I could think about was:

People, please make your reply on this thread small. No one wants to read 4 to 5 long paragraphs. Make them short. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Strongwiller

People, please make your reply on this thread small. No one wants to read 4 to 5 long paragraphs. Make them short. Thank you.

No one is forcing you to read them. Some people find it hard to give their opinion in two sentences. Reading a few lines isn't that hard. If it is, discussion boards may not be your thing =\

Originally Posted by Strongwiller

People, please make your reply on this thread small. No one wants to read 4 to 5 long paragraphs. Make them short. Thank you.

Once again, the irony of this type of statement in a thread about students who are too lazy is overwhelming.

You're in university. Grab an attention span, it's rather necessary.

Originally Posted by Bobble

Once again, the irony of this type of statement in a thread about students who are too lazy is overwhelming.

You're in university. Grab an attention span, it's rather necessary.

No, right now i'm in high school. Next year i'll be coming to mac

Though the article does make a really good point, I have to say that our highschools also share the blame for this. I did not feel like I was prepared for university at my high school. I was overwhelmed during first semester and I felt that my transition from high school was difficult. My teachers practically gave out marks to satisfy us and most were undeserved. Unlike university, you could also talk your way through many things. I know people who I went to high school with that basically got a free pass in high school without doing much work. They got to university and most of them are struggling through their first year and may be kicked out of their programs by the end of the year.