Coverage of their visit yesterday at City Hall: http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/stor...-students.html

Thoughts on the ongoing protests everyone?

Do you guys feel there is a chance such a method of addressing the tuition issue has the potential to spread to Ontario and/or McMaster?

I'm having trouble sympathizing with the Quebec students... their tuition is much else than ours.

As a fourth year I also don't really like the idea of "free tuition" some of the groups are pushing. All that is going to do is give everyone a degree, and make them worth less than they are already.

imho university should be harder to get into, more aligned towards academic and specialized fields. But that's a marks issues, not a monetary one.

As for the method... this is starting to get out of hand. I've heard of the them crashing class (i..e forcing students to not go to class).

So, meh?

Originally Posted by britb

I'm having trouble sympathizing with the Quebec students... their tuition is much else than ours.

As a fourth year I also don't really like the idea of "free tuition" some of the groups are pushing. All that is going to do is give everyone a degree, and make them worth less than they are already.

imho university should be harder to get into, more aligned towards academic and specialized fields. But that's a marks issues, not a monetary one.

As for the method... this is starting to get out of hand. I've heard of the them crashing class (i..e forcing students to not go to class).

So, meh?

The point is that money shouldn't prevent an otherwise deserving student from getting a degree.

Having said that, it's unrealistic to expect free, quality education. I'm fine with paying for my education if I know I'm going to learn something and it will get me somewhere in the future. Look at tuition for professional schools...pharmacy is 15K before supplementary fees, med school is around 20K, etc. People know they'll get a decent job out of it and be able to pay the loans back, so it's justifiable spending all that money. They take out a line of credit and go on from there.

I do agree that university should be harder to get into...and it shouldn't solely be based on high school marks, because doing so just ends up inflating those grades. Just because lack of money shouldn't stop someone from going to university, that doesn't mean that everyone SHOULD go to university, or even that everyone has a right to.

But yeah, no sympathy for the protesting student. I do, however, have sympathy for the students who want to attend classes and are being forcibly prevented from doing so.

Why should uni be harder to get into?

Originally Posted by Lulie

Why should uni be harder to get into?

Because so many people are getting into uni and getting degrees that the degrees are now worth very little and merely a formality, and the quality of education has in some ways decreased because of the lower standards.

University is a privilege and not a right in Canada. If it was free, our degrees would become so watered down that eventually, it would become like the high school degrees ( the minimum requirement of any job) Even now, since more and more people are going to University, a 4 year degree will not get you as far as it used to and you now need a graduate school degree to give you the edge in the workforce. I find that high schools are not hard enough and give away a lot of "free marks" and university requirements are way too low. I am not saying less people get into University, just that people with higher averages who work harder get the opportunity to go to post secondary universities. Most of these students get scholarships anyways, so there is incentive for working harder academically. With regards to the Quebec protests, I believe that they're complaining way too much. They were also wrong in harassing the students that actually care about their education. It's totally wrong, and unjustified. Being the ones who pay the least amount of tuition in the country, they should be thankful that they have the opportunity. The province subsidizes most of their tuition anyways, so where do they want the rest of the money to come from? I have not heard this answer...the province? the federal government? it all comes back to the taxpayers and equals higher taxes.

Was watching a Ted talk a while back that argued that the reason so many ppl are getting into uni may not be because it's easier to get into, but because our education system aims to push all students into uni when, as mentioned, they may not belong there.

In my high school, if you were doing well (avg 80%+) the expectation was that uni was your only choice. Am realizing now that this mode of thinking is flawed. As well, the admittance avg for most science programs is in the high 80s. It's no longer enough to be an honors student to get into a non-arts program. Kinda worrying non? Imagine bombing a calc or chem exam in gr12 (totally possible).

I hate the idea that uni should be harder to get into because right now that means raising admission avgs. I was in the IB program in high school, and I'm starting to realize that although (in my opinion) it gave me a better education than the academic stream, it was risky (in terms of grades). Not sure I could advise others to try IB out now given uni competition. I have the same mindset when I look at specialized programs at Mac. Are they worth risking your undergrad avg?

I don't support a protest like theirs because it'd be too inconvenient. Most people have prerequisite classes that are only offered during the fall term, so even loosing a semester would be devastating.

And if they make tuition free, we end up paying for it anyways with higher taxes. For people who can't afford it, there is OSAP which is already of big help. If they increase the amount of OSAP for those who need it the most, that would be good, but free tuition for everyone? No way.

Originally Posted by Lulie

Was watching a Ted talk a while back that argued that the reason so many ppl are getting into uni may not be because it's easier to get into, but because our education system aims to push all students into uni when, as mentioned, they may not belong there.

In my high school, if you were doing well (avg 80%+) the expectation was that uni was your only choice. Am realizing now that this mode of thinking is flawed. As well, the admittance avg for most science programs is in the high 80s. It's no longer enough to be an honors student to get into a non-arts program. Kinda worrying non? Imagine bombing a calc or chem exam in gr12 (totally possible).

I hate the idea that uni should be harder to get into because right now that means raising admission avgs. I was in the IB program in high school, and I'm starting to realize that although (in my opinion) it gave me a better education than the academic stream, it was risky (in terms of grades). Not sure I could advise others to try IB out now given uni competition. I have the same mindset when I look at specialized programs at Mac. Are they worth risking your undergrad avg?

Yes. You're getting more out of your education, and you'll be better prepared for whatever you want to do after university.

The problem is that the emphasis is on grades. That's all well and good for people with 12 averages, but it's an extremely flawed way of judging competence.

I don't have a problem with people who think university/college education should be free, only that they usually come from the wrong sort of place about it.. the whole spoiled/privileged attitude.

'Watering down' the meaning of a degree isn't a bad thing. It just means information and knowledge is more disseminated throughout the population, and you actually have to know your crap! I'm sure when they started letting women into university, there were complaints that 'just anybody can get a degree now, my graduation doesn't mean as much!'.

tl;dr: they're sort of coming from the wrong place, but 'free' education isn't a particularly negative thing

I somehow agree with britb..I mean it sounds a bit rude, but if free tution was the way to go then university education would not have that much of a standing as any tom, dick or harry would enroll and get a degree..
Maybe in the future when humans colonize different planets might the idea of "education for free" really work..

First of all. Money, although an issue for many, should not be the thing holding someone back completely. Unlike the UNITED STATES D= *ehm ehm*, the Canadian government actually gives a rats ass to help support students. It may not help them all the way but its a start!

Second, a degree is much more than a degree. You get out of it what you put into it. Believe it or not, if your degree is backed by research, professor's recommendations, experience, good grades and integrity, your degree could get you a lot farther than you think. Yes, degrees are abundant, so you need to find ways to make yourself stand out for the effort you put into it.

Yes, i also understand that getting into university is the *THING*, but sometimes university is useless compared to college. Many people studying at uni belong at college *not because they're stupid, dumb or incompetent*, but because they would benefit more through a hands-on co-op based learning experienced rather than lecture after lectures of professors ranting.

Third, Quebec students are just f***ing pathetic. I wouldn't conjure any group from the rioting students and demean them for being incompetent because to be an idiot, you have to be human. And some of the things these students have done there don't classify as *humane*. T_T
Spoiled, arrogant, pathetic, self-centered sons-of-god knows where.

Want McGill to be free? Lets see how far a FREE McGill can go for you. Srsly T_T

Originally Posted by Misspolitics

University is a privilege and not a right in Canada. If it was free, our degrees would become so watered down that eventually, it would become like the high school degrees

Price of degree has nothing to do with it.

You can have a free education with limited enrolment allowances.

University ought to be about academic achievement, not who has the deepest pockets -- i.e. you earn the privilege if you're up to snuff academically, not if your parents have a fat wallet.

Originally Posted by Lulie

Why should uni be harder to get into?

Because the average university program is a joke, except for the vocational streams. Degrees are being devalued.

Originally Posted by Abhimint

I mean it sounds a bit rude, but if free tution was the way to go then university education would not have that much of a standing as any tom, dick or harry would enroll and get a degree..

Any Tom, Dick or Harry whose parents have the money can already enrol and get a degree. The only requirement is some 80-90 grade in high school (i.e. daycare), which means absolutely nothing in academic terms -- they may as well ask us if we can count to 100 and spell our names.

Originally Posted by sam_akbari

Yes, i also understand that getting into university is the *THING*, but sometimes university is useless compared to college. Many people studying at uni belong at college *not because they're stupid, dumb or incompetent*, but because they would benefit more through a hands-on co-op based learning experienced rather than lecture after lectures of professors ranting.

Agreed.

Want McGill to be free? Lets see how far a FREE McGill can go for you. Srsly T_T

Universities which are heavily funded by tuition (see: US) charge anywhere from 10,000-50,000/year to undergrads. The government in Quebec covers everything but 1000-2000 or so. Going 2000 further when you've already gone 48,000 is nothing significant. In any case, most profs aren't going to leave over that, they aren't businessmen (except for business profs, I guess, but university is no place for business in any case).

I don't think that they should raise the admission averages to make it harder to get into rather high school averages should be changed.

I went to a harder high school that didn't have a special program like IB or AP so universities looked at us the same . High school grades are inflated, I know people who begged for grades at many different schools.

There should be something similar to the R score in Quebec where your grade is based off the class average, however somehow implemented that also accounts for the fact that if your school is the harder one or your class has alot of geniuses , your mark isnt deflated because with the R score , the ISG (Indicator of the Strength of the Group)"does not seem to sufficiently offset the advantage enjoyed by students in weak groups. Such students have the opportunity to obtain grades much higher than the low average of their class, thus earning an elevated z-score, whereas students in strong groups cannot earn such high z-scores. The presence of the ISG is supposed to work to the advantage of students in strong groups. Thus, sometimes, the best students in weak groups have lower R scores than the best students in strong groups (for example students in enriched programs)."

“We're really trying to raise awareness not only of what's going on in Quebec, but to provide an opportunity for students in Ontario to hear from students in Quebec about their experiences,” said Sarah Jayne King, Ontario chair of the Canadian Federation of Students (CFS)."

Yes, because Ontario students who pay 3x your tuition are going to sympathize with your street riots when you pay the lowest tuition in Canada.

I really can't sympathize with their cause. Their protests have led to destruction in montreal, inconveniences for the general public who have nothing to do with the government and students being unable to attend class and thus possibly having to graduate later. The heads of the movement aren't doing anything to control their rowdy protesters, either. I don't want any of that in Ontario, thank you very much. Advances at the bargaining table are made through talk, not mass destruction of public and private property.