I have a couple of questions on how grading is done in university, considering Ive heard it's alot different than high-school.

First of all, where to profs get their marks form in university? Is it mostly tests, final exams or assignments? (I dont think they have quizes in uni do they?)

On average, is most of your homework time spent studying for tests (or just studying in general), or working on assignments?

Ive heard at uni theres alot of time devoted to studying and making sure you understand the stuff, and there are only a couple of big written assignments per year, is this true?

Also....do profs actually use a bell-curve to grade their students? This idea kind of scares me lol

Finally, what is considered a "good" mark in university. I have about an 87% average right now, but in university I will be happy with anything in the seventy's...does this seem reasonable? (Im going into engineering btw)

It's sort of course dependant.

Because you're in eng, you're very unlikely to write essays. But for people in the Humanities and Soc Sci you'll write two or so for each class.

Generally you'll have some kind of term work (which can be composed of quizzes, tests, assignments, presentations, essays, attendance), and then a final exam. Some courses have final exams only worth 10%, others are 40% or more...it all depends on the individual class.

Unfortunately, not being in Eng, I can't tell you how much time you spend outside of the classroom learning. For the calc and stats courses I took, you read over the chapter, and then it's taught to you in class. Then you're assigned questions for homework, which is taken up the next day.

For Soc Sci and Humanities most of your time is spent prepping for classes (readings) or completing assignments.

There is a general rule for every hour you spend in the classroom you will spend three hours on homework; and that is prepping for classes as well as on assignments. However, during midterm/essay season that number often increases.

In upper years a greater portion of your marks are alloted to big assignments. In first year, your grades are often composed of many smaller assignments. This is because you need to understand the introductory material first in order to progress to upper years.

I have never had anything bell curved. However in the sciences and eng they do use them. It's because you have a lot more tests, and sometimes they find out if they've written them too hard a large proportion of the class failed. In order to remedy that they bell curve. So if you did really well you can actually end up with over a 100%, technically.

A good mark in university is dependant on Faculty. For getting into second year Eng classes you need an overall average of at least a 4 (C-). Some programs require higher averages, though. For Soc Sci and Humanities you need at least a 6 (C+) to be accepted into Honours, with a 7 (B-) in the classes of the program you want to get into (again, some courses have higher averages). Other than that, expect at least a 10% drop in your marks from Grade 12 to first year.

Unfortunately, because each high school has different standards for grading, an A in one school may be an A+ in another or a B- in another...so you may be under prepared for first year, or you could be very well prepared.

Ok so I am in Engineering right now and what was said above it mostly true.

You have to spend a lot of time outside of class working on homework or assignment.

For your maths its all about the homework problems and sample tests. Also for math the only thing you get marks from is 4 tests and an exam. (next year might be different but that is what it is this year)

For your chem, materials, and physics - prepping for labs and doing assignments is where you spend the majority of the time. If you spend a good amount of time on these then the tests should be easy. Actually physics is the only thing that got bell-curved this year. and that was for one test only.

For the new stuff programming and design, the most important thing is practice, practice code, practice sketching, practice 3D modelling. The amount of time you spend on these courses varies on how fast you pick it up.

those are the main core courses. Eng is a lot of work. You have more than other faculties but at least you dont have to write essays!!!

remember that even though eng is a lot of work it is still a lot of fun, its a great atmosphere here at mac. If you like learning this is the place to be. Also getting involved and taking breaks is important too.

Engineers work and play hard.

Hope this helps

Hey J-Met,

Since you're going into engineering, it will be a lot easier for me to answer. I'm going into 4th year Computer Engineering and Management.

Exams will usually be the biggest part of your final mark in a course, around 30-40% but it could go higher. If you miss tests or assignments (and you have a valid excuse and paperwork) the prof will usually defer the value to the final exam.

Test are number two in importance. A test is usually worth 20% or less of the final mark, depending on how many there are in the term. To give you an idea, for 3rd year ECE math, each test was worth 20% and the final exam was 60%.

The number of assignments depends from course to course. Some courses have them, some don't. I would say assignments usually make up 20% of your final mark but it depends since some courses (such as the management courses) put more emphasis on presentations and reports. Some courses only have lab assignments whereas others have lab assignments and your regular every day assignments. Some courses have 1 or 2 major assignments and some have weekly or biweekly assignments which are generally smaller.

Quizzes do exist and, again depending on the course, they can be worth anywhere from 5% up to 20% of the final mark.

How studying time is spent differs from person to person. If you're the kind of person that reviews every night and does practice problems then I guess you can file that under "studying in general." Of course, just before tests there will be a spike in the amount of time spent studying for them. The same is true for approaching assignment due dates. Also, don't expect the homework to be taken up in class. Sometimes it is, but most of the time it's an independent effort. The problems are suggested for practice. If you do want to make sure you did it right I encourage you to talk to your TAs and go see your profs during office hours. That's what they're there for

You will definitely have to understand what is being taught so that you can apply it on tests. Usually there is at least one question on the test which you have not seen before and which challenges you to apply the concepts you've learned.

In terms of the bell-curve...well I wouldn't be too dependent on it. Some profs use it but if they do, it has little impact on your final mark. Usually what profs will do is drop your worst test/assignment/quiz if it improves your mark.

What's a good mark? Well it depends. Obviously high 80's and low 90's are great marks. It really depends on what kind of expectations you have and what you're looking to do in the future. If you want to go into grad school then a higher average is what you will need. If you just want to get 'er done (and trust me, even if you don't feel like that now, you will at least once in your university career) then you can aim for the bare minimum which is in the low 60's. I would say an average in the 70's (which I long for ) is a good one.

I hope all this information helps. It may seem confusing (like it did to me when it was explained) but once you get in the system you'll understand it.

If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

Cheers! ERTW!

Does anyone know what kind of first year grades you need to get into mech second year?

mid - high seventies

McMaster's grading system:
http://registrar.mcmaster.ca /CALEN...02/sec_106.htm

Grade Equivalent |Grade Point| Equivalent Percentages
A+_____________12_________90-100
A ______________11 ________85-89
A- _____________10_________ 80-84
B+ _____________9 _________77-79
B ______________8 _________73-76
B- _____________7 _________70-72
C+ _____________6 _________67-69
C ______________5 _________63-66
C- _____________4 __________60-62
etc

Thanks for the replies neb and Danny your posts were very helpful

One more thing danny, Im interested in taking electrical engineering and management...what kind of grades did you need to get into the management option, was it competitive to get into?

Hey J-Met,

I didn't find the entrance to be too competitive (as in I don't know of anyone that applied to ECE&Management and didn't get in) but you do have to meet the requirements which are a grade of 9 or better in ECON 1B03.

In terms of average, I think I was at a 9 or 10 so it wasn't too high (high 70s, low 80s).

Just got another mail today from Mac regarding their engineering faculty... LEAP caught my eye as I can supposedly finish my 1P03 and 1C03 credits over the summer and not have to take them during the school year. I like the idea of a reduced courseload, but I'm not really sure if the $3770 price tag makes it worthwhile. My impression was that those credits are easy anyway? Any thoughts?

Doing courses during the summer also seemed attractive to me, but Im planning on doing summer co-op after first year so I dont really have the option....is anyone here doing eng co-op at mac? Is it a good thing to do? Any advantages/disadvantages?

1C03 and 1P03 are "easier" than the rest of your courses, however they do still take up a considerable amount of time. From what I recall, both courses have a presentation/design group work assignment which does take up a lot of time.

$3770 does sound like a lot for 6 units though. I guess they're including living expenses too (i.e. residence costs) because the cost per unit for first year engineering is $189.84 (from the undergrad calendar PDF: http://registrar.mcmaster.ca /CALENDAR/year2008/pdf/finances.pdf) so for 6 units it's roughly $1140. How long are the courses? (i.e. when do they start and end?)

These two courses are, in my opinion, by far the most time consuming in first year because of the presentations and group work involved.

On the upside, if you take them during the summer you decrease your course load during the year thereby being able to focus more on the technical courses. You also get to see what residence is like (I'm assuming) and get acquainted with the campus before September hits.

On the downside, you're out $2630 (residence costs; I'm counting only $2630 because you'd have to pay the $1140 as part of your tuition for September anyway). You also "lose" part of the summer after high school is done.

It comes down to: do you want to be a step ahead of your future classmates or at the same level in September. Neither choice is bad by any means. In the words of Captain Planet, "The power [to choose] is yours!"

I'm on internship right now and I wouldn't say it's a bad thing. Meeting people and creating professional relationships can only help you in the future.

Disadvantage is: you're working 9-5 Mon-Fri. If you see that as a disadvantage lol

Just a word of warning, there aren't many really technical co-op positions aimed at first years. Don't be disheartened though, you can apply to work for profs (there's an actual name for the position but it escapes me right now; ECCS will know) or you can just get a regular job on or off campus.

I think the main goal of a job after first year should be to make money to pay for the next year. I'm not trying to discourage any one, just trying to give you an idea of what to expect.

The $3770 is including residence fee as I don't live in Hamiliton... I'm not really too sure what it includes. It seems like a camp so maybe you'll do fun engineering camp things alongside with 1C03 and 1P03... although I'd much rather just pay for those courses only...

@ J-Met, these courses are for grade 12 students entering engineering in the fall so it won't conflict with your summer co-op (which I intend to do as well).

You could call and ask them if you can pay only for the courses. It would just be a matter of finding a place to stay nearby or commuting in every day. It shouldn't be too hard to find a summer sublet (or to find a place to live for the school year too).