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Star investigation: Slacking off gets high marks at this ‘high school’

 
Old 09-18-2011 at 09:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enarab View Post
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...l#.TnUz10bSHRg

So pretty much, this school was finally found out about. I know a lot of people went to this private school, and got university admissions, while others who did their courses in normal day school did not get in to their first choices. What do you guys think?
I read this in the paper actually. Annoyed me.
Old 09-18-2011 at 09:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooburii View Post
the question to be raised here is:
should there be a standardized university entrance test in Canada, like the SAT in the states?

by the way, this problem of padding marks isn't only associated with private schools. in hamilton, some catholic high schools also have a reputation for being "easy". I went to a public high school and know quite a few people who transferred to catholic schools to get better marks with less work.
Yes. Though it won't fix all the problems, at least it will help somewhat. They already do it in some provinces.
Old 09-18-2011 at 09:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaryll View Post
Standardized test? Probably. Catholic highschools in my area (Windsor Essex County) did not have a reputation for being easy.

However, with regards to standardized tests--I was in the International Baccalaureate program in a highschool, and my OSSD marks were the ones sent to the universities to which I applied. My marks were significantly lower than those of students in academic classes who were performing on a similar level. I found an essay in the computer lab one day that had been marked and left there, glanced at the first couple lines + the mark, and could not believe my eyes. That piece of tripe, which got a 90%, would have gotten something more like a 75% in an IB class.

So yes, despite all the complications that come with standardized tests, they would help in resolving issues like these.
I had the -exact- same problem. I would have gotten the 95+ easily in academic - my sister went through academic and her tests weren't even up to SL difficulty. The curve was especially nasty in English, it was almost impossible to break into 7 no matter what. Never mind all the other garbage we had to do - CAS, EE, TOK...

Last edited by britb : 09-18-2011 at 09:31 PM.

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Old 09-18-2011 at 09:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britb View Post
I had the -exact- same problem. I would have gotten the 95+ easily in academic. The curve was especially nasty in English, I remember. Never mind all the other garbage we had to do - CAS, EE, TOK...
I agree with all the extra stuff, but I thought the conversions from IB marks to OSSD marks more than made up for not being in academic
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Old 09-18-2011 at 09:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelScarn View Post
I agree with all the extra stuff, but I thought the conversions from IB marks to OSSD marks more than made up for not being in academic
The way they were -supposed- to be converted did. The problem is its not enforced correctly between schools. For example, English and Math were not converted at my school and no one from IB gave enough of a crap to do anything about it. Nor did our coordinators have any clue. Everything was done differently everywhere - for example I know some other schools got to end school after their exams, whereas starting the year after me, my school had to go until the end (JUNE - a MONTH after they wrote their exams). I can just imagine the sort of things that go on in programs that do not have standard tests at the end, and the sort of variability we get there.

/end mini-rant of bitterness

If even between IB schools you have huge grade inflation/deflation issues (due to conversion), imagine what goes on in academic and applied programs. Standardized testing is seriously needed across the board, administered by a neutral body (govt? each uni?)

Last edited by britb : 09-18-2011 at 09:44 PM.
Old 09-18-2011 at 10:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britb View Post
I had the -exact- same problem. I would have gotten the 95+ easily in academic - my sister went through academic and her tests weren't even up to SL difficulty. The curve was especially nasty in English, it was almost impossible to break into 7 no matter what. Never mind all the other garbage we had to do - CAS, EE, TOK...
I personally enjoyed writing my EE, as I picked a topic that I loved. Title was, "An examination of the interpretations of the wizard archetype in traditional and contemporary high fantasy, with specific reference to the trilogy The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien and the series The Belgariad, by David Eddings."

I've never had as much fun doing schoolwork as I did when I wrote that essay. <3
Old 09-18-2011 at 10:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britb View Post
The way they were -supposed- to be converted did. The problem is its not enforced correctly between schools. For example, English and Math were not converted at my school and no one from IB gave enough of a crap to do anything about it. Nor did our coordinators have any clue. Everything was done differently everywhere - for example I know some other schools got to end school after their exams, whereas starting the year after me, my school had to go until the end (JUNE - a MONTH after they wrote their exams). I can just imagine the sort of things that go on in programs that do not have standard tests at the end, and the sort of variability we get there.

/end mini-rant of bitterness

If even between IB schools you have huge grade inflation/deflation issues (due to conversion), imagine what goes on in academic and applied programs. Standardized testing is seriously needed across the board, administered by a neutral body (govt? each uni?)
Oh wow seriously? At our school we ended right after exams were done, what's the point of staying behind. I know the year after I left the principal changed and he tried to get the IB's to stay until June to make it "more fair for the academics", but everyone just called in sick for a month so I think he just dropped it
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Old 09-18-2011 at 10:59 PM   #23
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I have family in a small "religious" type private school system that routinely graduates their senior class to full rides at university. Granted its only like 10 kids a year but many cities public school systems don't have one student that gets a full ride.

I also wrote a term paper last year on whether or not SAT style testing in Canada is a good a idea and the basic conclusion was that the only thing SAT measure is ones ability to take the SAT and that ability can be bought. What we need is standardized AP entrance tests. It makes no sense for a person pursuing a English lit degree to be denied university entrance because they suck at math. SAT's are designed to show potential were as AP exams show what a person can already do and that is a far better gauge in my opinion.

Rich people that can afford private school have a major advantage. Pushing kids through to university makes the school look good and yes they (not all of them) make through university. I still see and hear of a ridiculous amount of people who pay people to do their work for them and not only that all of those people who work through university can only imaging how much better there marks would be if they came from money and didn't have to work.

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Old 09-18-2011 at 11:18 PM   #24
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not all people choose to go to private school just because they are "rich" and dont want to do any work- in fact many who do go to private schools are not rich and have to apply for financial aid. they choose to send their kids to these schools because of things such as not having 30 kids crammed into one room, or having a school where the principal and teachers turn a blind eye to things such as bullying because they have 2500 students to deal with. you cant generalize this to all private schools, that would be like me generalizing my experience in the public school system and saying that they all inflate their marks while the kids do almost no work (in my extra year I watchd more pointless movies and tv shows than in 3 years at private school for example I watched the Office in my international business course... tell me how that is relevant?)
Old 09-18-2011 at 11:25 PM   #25
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Hello.

Private school student here.

First off, I didn't choose to go to private school. My parents chose to send me there because they figured it was going to provide a richer education experience. I will say this. I am not a slacker. I'm a high-B Fourth-year university student, and to make the assumption that you would never send your kids to a school like that because of the worry that the school is "easy" is quite frankly wrong and somewhat offensive.

My friends didn't slack, and yes, there were a few kids who DID slack and their grades got bumped, but they were few and FAR between and not at all for the same reasons. For example, a friend of mine's brother (who is a genius) applied to Queens robotics engineering as his first choice, but he had an 82 average and the school's cutoff was something like an 84, and one grade was holding him back from what he wanted nothing more than to do, so they bumped him and he got in. He graduated with honours, works full time and has a career. On the other side of the coin, the most "popular" kid in my grade went off to Western after graduating with a clearly undeserved 80 average, and was gone by Christmas.

Certain private schools in the Toronto area are very very reputable. Would I send my child to one? No. Personally I don't think the money is worth it, and there are some very reputable public schools out there. I will also mention that even in my first year, it was unbelievably frustrating to have to put up with the absolute ignorance, arrogance and stupidity that some students display towards their education and even their professors. This STILL occurs in my fourth year classes to this day, and it STILL blows my mind. Are they all from private schools? I highly doubt it.

My best friend went to public school and recently admitted to me that he didn't complete half of his final latin exam in grade 12, but still got a 95 in the course. How is that possible? Wasn't a private school, and this kind of thing happens all the time everywhere.

I think the overlying point is that the educational system is extraordinarily broken. No school should tolerate slacking, because once university comes around, everything changes. Kids shouldn't have the attitude that many of them have about education. I went to a Montessori school until grade 6 and it was the best education I could ever have hoped for. I was raised from a young age to learn whatever I wanted to learn (within boundaries, of course) at whatever rate I needed to learn it at with no homework bogging me down. I was conditioned to find learning fun by using games and objects to facilitate the learning process, instead of sitting at a desk sleeping all day. I didn't write a test until I was 10, at which point I was actually excited to study. Fancy that. I was doing algebra in grade six, and when I came to middle school and worked on ROUNDING, it blew me away. We had a piano in the classroom I was in, and many of us actually learned how to play at school. At age 11 I took apart a computer, upgraded it, and rebuilt it with a friend. It was a totally different experience and it was only after I left that I became like everyone else and DESPISED going to school.

I understand how EVENTUALLY in this system, a form of serious testing and homework would have to be implemented in order to adequately prepare students for university, but it was by far the most enriching experience I have ever had in the classroom, and isn't that all that matters?

I'm rambling. I'll leave it there. Just don't single out private school students as lazy slackers.
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Old 09-19-2011 at 12:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willmountain View Post
Hello.

Private school student here.

First off, I didn't choose to go to private school. My parents chose to send me there because they figured it was going to provide a richer education experience. I will say this. I am not a slacker. I'm a high-B Fourth-year university student, and to make the assumption that you would never send your kids to a school like that because of the worry that the school is "easy" is quite frankly wrong and somewhat offensive.

My friends didn't slack, and yes, there were a few kids who DID slack and their grades got bumped, but they were few and FAR between and not at all for the same reasons. For example, a friend of mine's brother (who is a genius) applied to Queens robotics engineering as his first choice, but he had an 82 average and the school's cutoff was something like an 84, and one grade was holding him back from what he wanted nothing more than to do, so they bumped him and he got in. He graduated with honours, works full time and has a career. On the other side of the coin, the most "popular" kid in my grade went off to Western after graduating with a clearly undeserved 80 average, and was gone by Christmas.

Certain private schools in the Toronto area are very very reputable. Would I send my child to one? No. Personally I don't think the money is worth it, and there are some very reputable public schools out there. I will also mention that even in my first year, it was unbelievably frustrating to have to put up with the absolute ignorance, arrogance and stupidity that some students display towards their education and even their professors. This STILL occurs in my fourth year classes to this day, and it STILL blows my mind. Are they all from private schools? I highly doubt it.

My best friend went to public school and recently admitted to me that he didn't complete half of his final latin exam in grade 12, but still got a 95 in the course. How is that possible? Wasn't a private school, and this kind of thing happens all the time everywhere.

I think the overlying point is that the educational system is extraordinarily broken. No school should tolerate slacking, because once university comes around, everything changes. Kids shouldn't have the attitude that many of them have about education. I went to a Montessori school until grade 6 and it was the best education I could ever have hoped for. I was raised from a young age to learn whatever I wanted to learn (within boundaries, of course) at whatever rate I needed to learn it at with no homework bogging me down. I was conditioned to find learning fun by using games and objects to facilitate the learning process, instead of sitting at a desk sleeping all day. I didn't write a test until I was 10, at which point I was actually excited to study. Fancy that. I was doing algebra in grade six, and when I came to middle school and worked on ROUNDING, it blew me away. We had a piano in the classroom I was in, and many of us actually learned how to play at school. At age 11 I took apart a computer, upgraded it, and rebuilt it with a friend. It was a totally different experience and it was only after I left that I became like everyone else and DESPISED going to school.

I understand how EVENTUALLY in this system, a form of serious testing and homework would have to be implemented in order to adequately prepare students for university, but it was by far the most enriching experience I have ever had in the classroom, and isn't that all that matters?

I'm rambling. I'll leave it there. Just don't single out private school students as lazy slackers.
Nice to hear the other side! I tutor a kid who goes to private school in math. She does her work and tries hard - not everyone slacks. I also met a lot of private and gifted school children in HS (most of IB was one or the other) and I can say there really is no difference... but then they were a rather unique subset. But I think private schools are more susceptible to giving out free passes, though there are many that are excellent institutions. For one, they are not run by the govt, and hence have a lot more leeway when it comes to things like curriculum and assessment. Also, since parents pay for them, parents have a lot more power to come in and say their child "deserves" this mark (not that this doesn't happen far too much in public schools already).

Totally agree about the system being broken. Everything's too easy. Instead of making the curriculum stupid, make the kids smarter - teach them better, make them responsible. French, for example, started in grade 1 in my time. Its now been pushed back to grade 6 and its laughable. Integrals are no longer covered in academic and derivatives are shadows of their formula selves. Everyone can get into university.

This sounds horrible, but instead of letting everyone succeed, we need to let the weak ones fail instead of coddling them. They either get their act together (the majority, I'd hope) or look into other areas. The sad fact is not everyone can be an astronaut, doctor, etc, and pretending everyone can (like giving out free passes) is detrimental. A Bachelor is worthless but required for many positions, taking the place of the HS diploma. You now need to spend thousands of dollars to even qualify for jobs (jobs... not careers), instead of just keeping yourself out of trouble and working hard. How is that helpful to anyone?

That's why I advocate for some sort of testing - it means some will fail, instead of this ridiculousness everyone gets As and Bs we have now.

Last edited by britb : 09-19-2011 at 12:26 AM.
Old 09-19-2011 at 01:04 AM   #27
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Heh, on one side, we all ramble about how this whole "textbook" system of education isn't really "educating" but preparing people for jobs.

On the other side, we all want stricter schools.

Well, I can't say anything since I didn't even attend school in Canada...and no, my grades weren't bumped. I had to spend an extra year covering my tracks due to slacking and resit all the exams again (GCE)
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Old 09-19-2011 at 09:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britb View Post
I had the -exact- same problem. I would have gotten the 95+ easily in academic - my sister went through academic and her tests weren't even up to SL difficulty. The curve was especially nasty in English, it was almost impossible to break into 7 no matter what. Never mind all the other garbage we had to do - CAS, EE, TOK...
ugh.... EE :( and i really hated TOK
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Old 09-19-2011 at 11:11 AM   #29
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testing for some things is good but there are people who are not good test takers but excel in other areas of academia like essay writing. for example some people do better on exams that they have the set of questions for before hand and have time to think about how theywant to approach the questions and the points they want to bring up and study with more specificity rather than just studying everything vaguely and panicking when the teacher/prof goes in a different drection than what you studied.
Old 09-19-2011 at 11:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amare View Post
LOL im surprised this report is coming out now. Honestly no one is surprised by this. Private schools are a cheap way for the rich to pay there way through high school. You dont have to put in any effort and your in to the university you want. I know tons of people who decided to go to a private school (ie: blyth in toronto, and a bunch of others) just so they could get into university because they would have no chance at a normal high school.

Private schools arent the only way to get easy "high" marks. Go to an AP/IB program (im not saying their easy trust me) but there are a few IB schools out there which are complete jokes. If anyone knows of York Memorial in Toronto they'll know what I am talking about. The worst part is that universities give and extra 3-5% bonus just for going there no matter what your grades are there.
You went to memo? I WENT TO MEMO! Now there are 6 of us at mac!
But I'd only be able to agree with you for 1 AP course (comp science)
When the class avereage is 90% but on the AP exam all but one person get a level 1, you know somethings up :p
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