This new plan passed by the American Democrats is ridiculous. At what point in time did Barack Obama ever say that he was going to be as ridiculously leftist as he is acting right now.

Keynes said that a recession occurs when consumers do not spend their money in the market. When the Democrats propose protectionism, they are artificially raising the price of goods, and are not stimulating spending within the economy! Furthermore, they are screwing the Canadian economy over in the process!

When people spend money, it increases output, and creates more jobs. The fact that people are spending means that there is an increase in demand. That is how you save your damn economy!

I hate this stupid stimulus plan of Obama's because it throws basic economic principles out the window for some failed attempt at bi-partisanship.

Also, the executive salary cap is a dumb idea that is there to appease the poor people. Why doesn't the government tax those Executives a lot more, cut taxes for middle-income people, and try to pay off the external debt while the middle-income invest more in American markets. Instead of inflating, use the money that is already in the economy to pay for the social programs, while allowing citizens to privately invest in the markets that so badly need it.

THAT is the stimulus the American people deserve!

The Canadian stimulus package is much better. While students don't get much tangible stuff out of it right now, we will be better off in the future. Harper government's plan to spend money on infrastructure is awesome. It means that money is being spent in the economy to promote investment in technology. Spend money to make money!

I just wish the Canadian Conservatives would also swallow their pride and start taxing our millionaires higher while giving the middle-income a bigger tax break. I also wouldn't mind some more money being thrown at education so that the people coming out can actually make good money internationally and reinvest it back in the Canadian economy!

Originally Posted by deadpool

I just wish the Canadian Conservatives would also swallow their pride and start taxing our millionaires higher while giving the middle-income a bigger tax break.

Are a large quantity of Canadian Conservatives not in the millionaire group, and thus they do not want to be taxed more?

Originally Posted by deadpool

Why I am happy I voted for Harper, and not Obama

... so, you're a canadian citizen, right? that's why you voted harper? which means you couldn't vote obama...

you have good points, I agree with most. but your title is just completely unrelated. it doesn't make any sense...

Originally Posted by deadpool

Harper government's plan to spend money on infrastructure is awesome.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/1...a-economy.html

You criticize Obama for being ridiculously leftist and then call on Harper to raise millionaires taxes, lower middle class taxes, and to throw more money at education? That is EXACTLY what Obama is doing.

Keep in mind that the US's economy is much worse than Canada's, so the magnitude and content of the respective stimuli shouldn't be equal. The fact of the matter is, that for the US economy to rebound, a bill small enough for them to not have to borrow money would not be anywhere near large enough to get them to recover.

Let me be perfectly clear that the reason the US economy is collapsing is almost one hundred percent to do with lack of government intervention in the economy. Pretty well since Reagan's time, the US government has neglected its education system, its health care system, and allowed its financial institutions to become unstable. The US manufacturing industry fell behind Asian and European industries because of lack of government investment in new green technology.

What Obama is doign now is fixing 20 years of bad policy. For the US to be competitive in the global economy, it needs massive government investment in health care, education, and green technology to catch up with the rest of the world. What it doesn't need is just tax cuts as the conservatives and republicans would like.

No one likes to borrow money and push the government into a massive deficit. Obama wants to be re-elected in 2012 so he's not going to do something unpopular unless he knows it is absolutely necessary. This stimulus is absolutely necessaary.

Originally Posted by J-Met

You criticize Obama for being ridiculously leftist and then call on Harper to raise millionaires taxes, lower middle class taxes, and to throw more money at education? That is EXACTLY what Obama is doing.

Keep in mind that the US's economy is much worse than Canada's, so the magnitude and content of the respective stimuli shouldn't be equal. The fact of the matter is, that for the US economy to rebound, a bill small enough for them to not have to borrow money would not be anywhere near large enough to get them to recover.

Let me be perfectly clear that the reason the US economy is collapsing is almost one hundred percent to do with lack of government intervention in the economy. Pretty well since Reagan's time, the US government has neglected its education system, its health care system, and allowed its financial institutions to become unstable. The US manufacturing industry fell behind Asian and European industries because of lack of government investment in new green technology.

What Obama is doign now is fixing 20 years of bad policy. For the US to be competitive in the global economy, it needs massive government investment in health care, education, and green technology to catch up with the rest of the world. What it doesn't need is just tax cuts as the conservatives and republicans would like.

No one likes to borrow money and push the government into a massive deficit. Obama wants to be re-elected in 2012 so he's not going to do something unpopular unless he knows it is absolutely necessary. This stimulus is absolutely necessaary.

Wrong.

The deficit is not the problem. When most of the world trades on your currency, you are not going to go insolvent overnight. It would take a few years before the US dollar would be replaced as the world's most powerful currency.

As for government intervention, it is exactly what leads countries into these problems. The whole subprime debacle started when the Clinton Administration, happy with their prosperity from H.W. Bush's policies, forced Fannie Mae to start lending money to people with less than desirable credit scores.

The government has laid out their money badly. First off, let's talk about the amount of money going into saving jobs. The payroll tax cuts are sure to help companies keep some people, but does not help create jobs. There is rampant unemployment happening, and we have a lot of intelligent people sitting at home right now because their industries have crashed. A $3000 tax credit does not do much for incentive when people have salaries around $100 000.

Secondly, Obama's infrastructure earmarks are slow moving. From what I read, the first billions of the highway money won't be in the economy until the end of 2010. This means that low-skilled labourers will not be hired until around that time.

Broadband internet to rural areas will also take a hell of a long time. The proposal is good, but not for this point in the recession. Obama needed to do things within the urban environment in order to spur on investment in the short term.

The entire problem with his policy is that it will hit down the road, and not address the actual issues faced today.

As for Harper vs. Obama? Harper's plans have been in motion and we will be seeing infrastructure changes in the coming months as opposed to the coming years. Also, for education I meant my education, not the education of elementary school kids. Obama's education plans target schools, not universities.

Originally Posted by stevennevets

... so, you're a canadian citizen, right? that's why you voted harper? which means you couldn't vote obama...

you have good points, I agree with most. but your title is just completely unrelated. it doesn't make any sense...

My title was to spur people to actually reply lol. It's designed to piss people off hahaha.

And Sabrina, millionaires are a large minority in the Canadian population. It takes a lot more than these to get a government elected.

How about replying to ME instead of Sabrina...who didn't post.

rohan sucks.

Way to screw up our names Rohan lol

Oh my bad, I wasn't paying attention.

If it was Danielle, I wish to reword my answer:

"No (princess), it takes more than just the millionaires in Canada to vote the Conservatives in since people with a million+ in the bank account for less than 8% of the Canadian population. Smarten up!"

Now let me re-word my original answer...

Aren't the richest Canadians generally the ones who would vote in a conservative government, as they are the party usually most centered on economic gain for the middle class and greater groups?

And...8% of the population or the eligible voting population?

yay for Obama making the US Dollar eventually worthless

Let me state my bias from the outset...I am a socialist and the president-elect of the campus New Democrats. Nevertheless, I understand your frustration, but wanted to provide a sort of counter argument.

Mr. Harper's plan is...to say the least...haphazard. What you're hearing from the media is only the surface. The biggest problem is that Mr. Harper's plan allocates funds for infrastructure. After a careful review of the budget, the New Democrats firmly decided they could not support it because it does nothing but put on the facade of Keynesian action (the very action Mr. Harper was dead-set against mere months ago), instead of investing in solutions to the recession and, with any luck, preventing another recession from happening.

The basic economic principles you speak of are highly flawed. They are mired in the current system which is characterized by booms, busts and massive gaps between the millionaires you speak of and the rest of us...the middle class included.

Capitalism is not the best system available and there is no reason why we should have to live with any form of economic organization that offers no or little security, and squeezes every penny possible from the middle class, the working class and anyone else in a position to be exploited (STUDENTS!)

Mr. Harper is not looking out for you, remember. The middle class are not who Mr. Harper wants to help.

Mr. Harper wants to help Mr. Harper.

There are alternatives available, and you got one right on. We need to re-adjust the system of taxation in this country so the excessively wealthy are paying their fair share and so that the middle and working classes get the breaks they deserve! We should be investing in co-operatives, community development projects, intensified schooling, encouraging more students to enroll in medicine and putting the unemployed to work producing the environmentally friendly goods that will lift us out of the recession and put us on the forefront of the global push towards a Human-Centered Economy.

Allocating money that may or may not come through to pave a road will not help us out of this recession.

Its amazing that more of us are getting involved, but remember to look past the happy images the Liberals and Conservatives always give us...they are both looking out for the market status quo.

Change is possible.

c.erl, what do you say to the fact that Calgary, as a very Conservative city, has a fair number of Co-ops, but also a large number of upper class?

Actually, the Conservatives cater to more than just the 8% or so that have the vast majority of the wealth...even though those people are most likely to vote and keep the status quo. Which begs the question whose fault is it really? But I won't go there in this post. Generally, the Conservatives are everyone's party but for different reasons. Almost all enjoy tax breaks, some disagree with welfare payments, and others like traditional values.

As for socialism, I agree that it is a better economic system in terms of co-operation but it does not lead to efficiency. Which may explain why it has almost always, if not always, failed.

The sad fact is that this trend toward socialism is unavoidable, as we are already losing our privacy and freedom.

However, maybe this is needed for our society as it has been tremendously privileged for over 150+ years.

Some food for thought..