Originally Posted by lawleypop

Why would math be the most universal language?

Math is a universal language because the principles and foundations of math are the same in all countries. Four plus four equals eight if you write it as Arabic numerals 4 + 4 = 8 or Roman numerals IV + IV = VIII. The concept of 8 items is the same everywhere around the world.

In the form of a proof:

Universal language = language understood by all of the world's population

Math = same all around the world! understood by all of the world's population.

Therefore, universal langauge = math

Originally Posted by rrtt

Math is a universal language because the principles and foundations of math are the same everywhere around the world.

In other words:

Universal language = language spoken/understood by all or most of the world's population

Math = same all around the world! 2+2 can be understood by people in Africa, England, China, etc.

Therefore, universal langauge = math

2+2 is basic arithmetic. Not quite what I would call math. Not too many people understand the concept of standard deviation, or limits, or -insert more complicated math theorems here.-

My own mother wouldn't be able to do 33/23 + 17/9. Certainly not without a calculator.

And even if I agree that math is a universal language, it's not as if math helps us to communicate with each other. If I need directions to the Louvre, I'm not going to ask someone what 3+7 is.

The concept of 8 items is the same everywhere around the world.

Wrong.
If there's one thing I remember from Anthropology last year, is that different cultures have different understanding of quantities (or something like this).
I know someone who remembers this stuff better than I do can elaborate.
All I remember is the example of some tribe not being able to grasp the concept of "there's more than 3 items."

Originally Posted by lawleypop

2+2 is basic arithmetic. Not quite what I would call math. Not too many people understand the concept of standard deviation, or limits, or -insert more complicated math theorems here.-

My own mother wouldn't be able to do 33/23 + 17/9. Certainly not without a calculator.

And even if I agree that math is a universal language, it's not as if math helps us to communicate with each other. If I need directions to the Louvre, I'm not going to ask someone what 3+7 is.

Basic arithmetic falls under the subject of math....and you don’t have to be able to calculate a math question in your head to understand it....

A universal language is just a language that is understood by everyone. I was simply stating that math is the closest thing we have to a universal language since it is understood by most (if not all) of the world.

Originally Posted by rrtt

Basic arithmetic falls under the subject of math....and you don’t have to be able to calculate a math question in your head to understand it....

And just because you can do it on a calculator doesn't mean you understand it. It doesn't mean you can tell us WHY the answer is what it is.

Following a few simple steps to arrive at an answer =/= understanding.

Hell, let's just look at all the LOLamerican game shows where someone gets a basic arithmetic question wrong. If they understood the concept, would they not be able to calculate it?

Originally Posted by lawleypop

And just because you can do it on a calculator doesn't mean you understand it. It doesn't mean you can tell us WHY the answer is what it is.

Following a few simple steps to arrive at an answer =/= understanding.

Hell, let's just look at all the LOLamerican game shows where someone gets a basic arithmetic question wrong. If they understood the concept, would they not be able to calculate it?

I think you are confusing understanding with mathematical errors. I would like to believe that everyone understands what 45+345 is. However, its normal to make a silly error in adding up the numbers. Using a calculator doesnt mean that you dont understand a concept.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Wrong.
If there's one thing I remember from Anthropology last year, is that different cultures have different understanding of quantities (or something like this).
I know someone who remembers this stuff better than I do can elaborate.
All I remember is the example of some tribe not being able to grasp the concept of "there's more than 3 items."

I haven't heard of this example myself but I can imagine it's true. This would be an exception. If you read my post again, I said math is the closest thing we have to a universal language. By no means did I say that it is an absolute universal language.....

Originally Posted by rrtt

I think you are confusing understanding with mathematical errors. I would like to believe that everyone understands what 45+345 is. However, its normal to make a silly error in adding up the numbers. Using a calculator doesnt mean that you dont understand a concept.



I haven't heard of this example myself but I can imagine it's true. This would be an exception. If you read my post again, I said math is the closest thing we have to a universal language. By no means did I say that it is an absolute universal language.....

I think we have different definitions of understanding. My definition of understanding is being able to explain WHY something it is the way it is.

To the 2nd part: Well if it's the closest thing, then English is the closest thing to a universal language in regards to international business (from other ppl's posts)

Originally Posted by lawleypop

I think we have different definitions of understanding. My definition of understanding is being able to explain WHY something it is the way it is.

To the 2nd part: Well if it's the closest thing, then English is the closest thing to a universal language in regards to international business (from other ppl's posts)

That is my definition of understanding as well. I am pretty sure that is what most people define understanding to be. But anyways, this is getting way off track again. English may be important for international business, but to say that everything is based on English is simply elitist and untrue. I am not sure how many times I am going to have to say this but there is NO universal language.

Originally Posted by rrtt

Math is a universal language because the principles and foundations of math are the same in all countries. Four plus four equals eight if you write it as Arabic numerals 4 + 4 = 8 or Roman numerals IV + IV = VIII. The concept of 8 items is the same everywhere around the world.

In the form of a proof:

Universal language = language understood by all of the world's population

Math = same all around the world! understood by all of the world's population.

Therefore, universal langauge = math

much like in architectural drafting. the way they are done is to be universal and to be read by any other architect of any other country.

Originally Posted by rrtt

I am not sure how many times I am going to have to say this but there is NO universal language.

Yes but there are few things that come close to it, like music. Even your body and facial expressions can be used in terms of language.

However if you meant talking then English/Mandarin are the two biggest languages, and at the moment if you want to work on international basis then u must know english.

And just because you can do it on a calculator doesn't mean you understand it.

Thats like saying that using a translator does not count. A translator can help you understand a language, and let you communicate with the other person.

Originally Posted by ice8

Yes but there are few things that come close to it, like music. Even your body and facial expressions can be used in terms of language.

However if you meant talking then English/Mandarin are the two biggest languages, and at the moment if you want to work on international basis then u must know english.

Thats like saying that using a translator does not count. A translator can help you understand a language, and let you communicate with the other person.

Try asking the average person why e^1=0. The average person will probably never be able to tell you WHY the answer is what it is.

The only thing a calculator does is tell you the answer. Not why, or how. And those are the keys to understanding.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Try asking the average person why e^1=0. The average person will probably never be able to tell you WHY the answer is what it is.

The only thing a calculator does is tell you the answer. Not why, or how. And those are the keys to understanding.

Yes, but math isn't really a complete language. It can only be used for simple things. You cannot try to have a communication with someone while talking about integrals.

There will never be a universal language. Even english/mandarin, people can learn it but they will only learn it so much. Most people won't even use complicated words in each language. Its all about keeping it simple.

PS: e^1 = e

Originally Posted by ice8

Yes, but math isn't really a complete language. It can only be used for simple things. You cannot try to have a communication with someone while talking about integrals.

There will never be a universal language. Even english/mandarin, people can learn it but they will only learn it so much. Most people won't even use complicated words in each language. Its all about keeping it simple.

PS: e^1 = e

Sorry, I meant e^0 = 1

And to the first paragraph: I said the exact same thing in an earlier post.

And I agree w/ the 2nd.

Originally Posted by lawleypop

Try asking the average person why e^1=0. The average person will probably never be able to tell you WHY the answer is what it is.

The only thing a calculator does is tell you the answer. Not why, or how. And those are the keys to understanding.

Try asking the average person why mother is the word for a woman who has borne a child/raised a child. The average person will probably never be able to tell you. However, they will understand what mother means when they hear it.

Similarly, try asking the average person why a circle with an upside Y in it represents peace. Most likely, the average person will not be able to tell you. Nonetheless, they will recognize and acknowledge peace when they see the symbol.

In the same way, the average person may not be able to tell you the reasoning behind e^0 =1, but that doesnt mean that they dont understand it. You do not always need to know why something exists (i.e., mother, peace symbol, limits/derivatives/exponents) to understand.

Originally Posted by rrtt

Try asking the average person why mother is the word for a woman who has borne a child/raised a child. The average person will probably never be able to tell you. However, they will understand what mother means when they hear it.

Similarly, try asking the average person why a circle with an upside Y in it represents peace. Most likely, the average person will not be able to tell you. Nonetheless, they will recognize and acknowledge peace when they see the symbol.

In the same way, the average person may not be able to tell you the reasoning behind e^0 =1, but that doesnt mean that they dont understand it. You do not always need to know why something exists (i.e., mother, peace symbol, limits/derivatives/exponents) to understand.

The average person does not understand mathematical concepts! Just because you can add 2+2 doesn't mean you understand it! It doesn't mean you can explain WHY it is the answer. Why do I have to repeat myself? Math isn't a universal language. Yes, it may be the same EVERYWHERE, but if no one else besides engineers/mathematicians/smart people can explain it, then it's not universal.

How the hell do you understand e^0=1 but can't explain the reasoning behind it? That doesn't really make sense. Either you know how to get there and what it means, or you don't.

And I'm not going to reply to you comparing math to an arbitrary image with arbitrary meaning attached to it. Actually, I will. It's because people are too ****ing stupid to understand any thing worthwhile and pretty pictures makes everything so much less confusing! -insert valley girl voice here-

If you can't explain something beyond "it is because it is" then you don't understand the why or how behind it and thus, you probably wouldn't be able to apply it in a really confusing and not-obvious situation (I don't know how else to word this). If you understand why 2+2=4 and 12+7=19 then you can probably understand why xxx+xxx=xxx. If you only ever learn 2+2=4 because "that's just how it is," then you probably won't be able to do anything more complex.

Is this not exactly why professors tell you to UNDERSTAND a concept and not just memorize it? So you can apply it to more difficult situations that aren't the repeat of the very basic one used as an example?

And again, the term mother isn't universal. Just like the concept of "8" isn't.

Let's just all speak in mumbles to each other and pretend like everyone can understand each other and call it universal!

Who cares if everyone in the world can do 2+2. If no one understands it, it's pretty useless and arbitrary.

art (drawing) is technically universal. Everyone can understand it. Black is a symbol of evil, while white represents purity. Red is for stop, or blood, while green is to go or environment. Colours, and art is universal.