[AndrewC]

Womens Centre Aftermath


BY ANDREW CATERINE, OPINION

It had not been much more than a week since the members of the McMaster Students Union collectively voted to elect its SRA members and voice their decision on whether the MSU should found a Women’s Centre on campus before a group of students voiced their opinion on the decision of the latter. Hanging above the stairwell that leads to Quarters are a number of handmade banners that depict the disapproval of the referendum results for the Women’s Centre hiding beneath the notion that McMaster University and the MSU don’t support the idea. There are banners attacking the elections committee and the “exclusion” of the term “trans” on the referendum ballot. There are banners implying that McMaster supports some sort of gender bias or exclusion. There are also banners questioning the safety of individuals on campus and more. I do not wish to re-iterate many of the excellent points that Mr. Richardson mentioned in his article entitled “Women's Centre - An SRA Member's Opinion” but I would like to comment on what I have seen today.

My first comment is regarding the attacks against the Elections Committee. As a preface to the comment I would like to add that the Elections Committee is both extremely hard working and extremely professional and that all of the elections run this year, were done so seamlessly. However, to my surprise, I am staring straight at posters questioning the intentions of the elections committee and those individuals whom are apart of it. The posters question why the word “trans” was excluded from the ballot while implying that those who are against the establishment of a centre are the ones controlling how the referendum is operated. This is a slap in the face to those who dedicate their time and go beyond their duties to run these elections. After speaking, debating and knowing some of the members it has become clear that their opinions and own beliefs are left behind in order to ensure the validity of our democratic process. Not only are the members of the elections committee completely impartial during this time, they are also sincere in ensuring that the true voice of the student community is represented.

My second comment is directed to the notion that McMaster and the MSU hold some sort of sexual bias and that they are not promoting a safe environment for the students. It is more than obvious that the MSU and University are extremely sympathetic to supporting the very sensitive and difficult needs of its students. Some examples include the QSCC, which is a designated safe spot for a variety of people that includes Transgender individuals. In addition the MSU operates SHEC where students of all natures can inquire about sexual health and information. Finally Diversity Services which, “aims to build and maintain a campus that celebrates, advocates and ensures that the McMaster campus is an inclusive and diverse community in areas including, but not limited to, ethnicity and culture, faith and spirituality, gender, ability/disability and sexual orientation.” That is just the MSU, consider that the University also offers professional counseling through the Centre for Student Development. I think to assume that McMaster or the MSU holds any kind of bias towards certain groups is both ridiculous, naïve and ignorant.

Finally let us address the actual issue of the referendum. The fault of the results does not lie with the University or MSU, the results are not some conspiracy to suppress a certain group of individuals so to whomever is responsible for these banners, stop trying to make it seem this way. The first problem lied with the founding committee or the group whom made the proposal. There was no active campaigning, not even so much as information sessions to inform the students of a perceived need for such a centre. Furthermore, the results reflect the voice and opinion of the students. So aim your attacks at the students and voter apathy. It was made clear that either: a) students were not informed or b) student simply did not care.

This campaign, after the fact, fails to take into account the faults of those responsible, those who proposed the centre. I do not pretend to understand the unique needs and issues that arise in a women’s life but I certainly respect them, just as I respect the issues that affect all groups whether it be by race, sexuality, gender, faith or anything else. So as I try to inform myself to vote on a referendum topic that I honestly know very little about, I come across a McMaster Women’s Centre that was dissolved in 1985 due to a loss of focus. With this in mind, and with the lack of information provided to the general population by the founding committee, it is no wonder that the student population did not race to the polls to check yes.

I conclude this rant with a request. To those who have expressed they want a Women’s Centre on campus, please do your research, and the due process necessary. This Women’s Centre needed to be something more than a cause if it were to mean anything. This Centre started off as a safe haven for students and has now turned into a cause against the MSU and McMaster. If you wish to implement such a Centre, then inform the students, find out why the past one failed, and search for alternative options within the services already being offered by both the University and MSU. I can’t imagine the students of our school ignoring an idea that would improve the life of our student community, so ask yourselves, why did they ignore this one?

[McIntyre]

Well said. The two things that I continually correct when speaking to the members of the founding committee are:

1) The proposed Women's Centre in the referendum did not leave out trans individuals. There was no proposal attached, just a very general and overarching question that would have left the creation and operation of the Women's Centre up to the MSU. Although the MSU has the QSCC as a resource for trans individuals, I can confidently say that the MSU would never have established a Women's Centre that was gender biased by excluding trans individuals.

2) Any individual is able to use MSU services. We have staff, professors, grad students and undergrad students that use EFRT, SWHAT, SHEC, QSCC, and many other of the services that the MSU offers. A Women's Centre run by the MSU would NOT exclude those individuals.

I'm all for groups of people trying to raise awareness when they feel their rights have been wronged - but PLEASE stop misinforming students. You KNOW that trans individuals and grad students/staff/professors would not be excluded from an MSU run Women's Centre so don't tell our students that!

I would be happy to conduct a survey with students to ask that if a Women's Centre would be established on campus, who would they want to operate it - the MSU or CUPE - however, I think the answer is quite obvious.

[huzaifa47]

The first problem lied with the founding committee or the group whom made the proposal. There was no active campaigning, not even so much as information sessions to inform the students of a perceived need for such a centre. Furthermore, the results reflect the voice and opinion of the students. So aim your attacks at the students and voter apathy. It was made clear that either: a) students were not informed or b) student simply did not care.

That there Is the key of WHY this referendum failed, being a poll clerk I can personally vouch for the fact that just about 10-20% of the voters at my stations appeared to be fully aware of what this was all about, a number of them asked for more information or asked if they could just vote for the SRA and not the referendum. However as poll clerks or as the election's committee members our hand's were tied, we had specefic instructions to remain impartial and thats what we sadly had to do: All we could do was instruct them to read the information on the ballot. Imo then the fault lies with the campaigining of the referendum, posters/flyers or articles @ Macinsiders/facebook and in the Sil would definitely have helped.

[KaesoPublius]

Hear hear Andrew!

I was unfortunately privy to not only attacks made on the integrity of our Elections Committee today, but some of those involved had the audacity to assert that the MSU is run by straight white males, which is ridiculous considering only what... two people on the MSU Executive Board fit that simplistic description? What a fun day this was...

[lorend]

Durr!

I guess I shouldn't have been at work today and protested the protest. *le sigh*

As a member of the EC I can confirm that the referendum question posed to students was based on what information was provided to us in the proposal: if we were to add "trans" "womyn" or anything else we would not be properly presenting the information based on the initial proposal. Thus students could have potentially been voting on something that wasn't proposed...which seems pretty counter-productive

*cough* DVD referendum *cough*

To any/all members of the founding committee who may read this: if you want a woman's center so badly then please go through the proper channels and have your proposal brought to a referendum vote just like this one was.

And also, don't call my female friends sexist.

[J-Met]

I can't say a whole lot about this issue because I, even after reading this post, really have no idea what this is all about.

I think that in itself is a problem that I can comment on though... to be honest i saw posters around saying "womens referendum" or something to that nature along with the SRA elections. Admittedly, I didn't look into any further, but I simply did not vote in either election or referendum because I assumed that it was something only women could vote on because of how the posters were worded. (In fact I still dont know whether this was something all genders could vote on.)

I do blame myself for not being engaged, as the information was probably available to me had i looked it up, but I think I could be a good representative of a busy student who doesn't really inquire or care all to much about something unless it is presented to them in a clear way.

The communication level for this thing, which I assume was something all students probably would have cared about if they knew about it, was really bad.

[kokosas]

Originally Posted by J-Met

I can't say a whole lot about this issue because I, even after reading this post, really have no idea what this is all about.

I think that in itself is a problem that I can comment on though... to be honest i saw posters around saying "womens referendum" or something to that nature along with the SRA elections. Admittedly, I didn't look into any further, but I simply did not vote in either election or referendum because I assumed that it was something only women could vote on because of how the posters were worded. (In fact I still dont know whether this was something all genders could vote on.)

I do blame myself for not being engaged, as the information was probably available to me had i looked it up, but I think I could be a good representative of a busy student who doesn't really inquire or care all to much about something unless it is presented to them in a clear way.

The communication level for this thing, which I assume was something all students probably would have cared about if they knew about it, was really bad.

All genders can vote in both the SRA election and the referendum because it effects all genders. I don't think the MSU has ever had a one gender election because that would be excluding a huge chunk of MSU members.

The bottom line is that this was not advertised very well. I don't even know what posters you are referring to, I never saw them, which says something.

Sometimes being engaged as a student is difficult because, like you said, you are busy as we all are. Its even more difficult when the information is not readily available to you.

I think neon signs and flashy lights would have done the trick. Or simply getting a group to put up posters, banners and stop and talk to people in the student centre in the weeks leading up to the referendum.

[huzaifa47]

Originally Posted by J-Met

I can't say a whole lot about this issue because I, even after reading this post, really have no idea what this is all about.

I think that in itself is a problem that I can comment on though... to be honest i saw posters around saying "womens referendum" or something to that nature along with the SRA elections. Admittedly, I didn't look into any further, but I simply did not vote in either election or referendum because I assumed that it was something only women could vote on because of how the posters were worded. (In fact I still dont know whether this was something all genders could vote on.)

I do blame myself for not being engaged, as the information was probably available to me had i looked it up, but I think I could be a good representative of a busy student who doesn't really inquire or care all to much about something unless it is presented to them in a clear way.

The communication level for this thing, which I assume was something all students probably would have cared about if they knew about it, was really bad.

The posters he is reffering to I think were the "official election proclamation" ones put up by the elections comittee themselves! Not the proponents of the Women's centre.
Secondly I just walked by the posters in the MSU, I think the HUGE list of universities/colleges who already have a women's centre is sending out a controversially strong message to the women on campus. Just right now there were two girls shaking their heads reading "that" poster. They way it is situated makes McMaster look rather gender biased.

[temara.brown]

I cannot write too much right now because I need to be doing school work.. BUT I went to the protest today to speak with the people doing this and here are my discoveries:

1. The protest was perpetuating the idea that MAC/MSU were being run by 'bad peoples' because we were supposedly all opposing the idea of a women's centre and were intimidating the founding committee - the 'good people' who were trying to do the right thing.

2. Perpetuating the notion that the MSU has sexist policies (wtf?!) and that neither the MSU or the Univ is in no way capable of running a legitimate women's centre in any other way that's not the way the founding committee wants... but they were not able to really communicate reasons as to why this would be the case which leaves a false understanding of where the MSU/University stands on the issue.

3. The people doing the protest were not the founding committee members as was my understanding. They were people who were trying to support the vision of the committee. Thereby their actions were (hopefully) not necessarily representative of what the committee's vision actually is. Frankly, if we're going to have a centre on campus that started by running protests like that, I'd be very worried.

4. The protesters explained what is wrong with our current set-up and how we currently address womyn's issues. Basically, their only complaint was that our services were fragmented. There are plenty of services out there that handle these issues but there is not one central place to focus on it, supposedly leaving people in the dark.

5. I was actually accused of making sexist remarks when trying to engage them in discussion. Now admittedly, the way I said something could be construd as that. Basically, I had said, "I was there when those girls made the presentation on behalf of the founding committee." Instead of addressing the point that I was making, the protesting group decided it would be appropriate to call me out on the fact I called them 'girls..' okay wtf. Apparently I didn't respect their maturity?!? THEY'RE MY AGE!.. Anyways, correcting people like that in that kind of a way really irritates me. Yes, I understand their point but srsly! Rude! Don't shoot down people who do not partake in the feminist paradigm when they're trying to work with you, speak with you, communicate, understand and help what you're trying to do by insulting them in a way that promotes exactly what you do not want your vision to be.

...I left feeling no different towards the women's centre. I was flat out against it still after speaking with them for at least half an hour.

It wasn't until after when I went to speak with the Diversity Services Director who had a table out in the student centre where I was slightly more in agreement with the idea of getting more of a focus on these issues. He approached the issue sensibly and has done his research (finally! SOMEONE who had done some sensible research!) I still am not convinced that a centre solely devoted to women's issues is the way to go but I am now slightly more in line with the idea that there could be an expansion on a current service that could properly address these issues. Matt has been in communication with the individuals of the founding committee who he described as very nice people to work with! The one reason I've finally received, after months of asking, as to why this would not be best run as an MSU service was this example: Say a female eng prof feels as if she is taken less seriously by her students than her male counterparts because of the fact she is a female in a male-dominated department. What does she do? A purely MSU service, run by students doesn't have that strong image of credibility that a university service may have in comparison. MSU services are run by students and have rules on hiring exclusively MSU members for most positions. It's questionable as to whether this professor would feel comfortable confiding in a student-run service on issues she's facing with students. The idea of it being set-up like Ombuds is currently is something to consider in this case. Ombuds is part MSU, part McMaster University. If this service was set up like that, it would be able to keep that legitimacy and yet provide opportunities for students.

At the same time, I'm still questioning whether or not these are issues that need to be addressed further on campus. If I were that prof, I would probably just go to Ombuds. They're a confidential service who could properly address how to go about handling these issues.

I still remain unconvinced that we flat out need this service. I do, however, maintain that I possess willingness to debate this issue despite the part where I may seem to continually challenge these various proposals.

One more point that I hope was made clear today. A bunch of SRA members were speaking with the protestors today. We made it clear that we wanted to communicate with them and wanted to hear out their viewpoints. I want to make it clear here that as representatives, SRA members do their best to actually be representatives and actually go about and communicate with students. We are all for the most part very outspoken and opinionated individuals who want to hear sides of the story in order to establish what would be the best possible situation.

...okay school time... and it always happens that whenever I put a disclaimer up about how I should be doing school work and a plea to excuse the brevity of whatever I am posting, what I write never actually ends up being brief. Dang.
School fails are not a funny thing.

[webzn]

Originally Posted by huzaifa47

The posters he is reffering to I think were the "official election proclamation" ones put up by the elections comittee themselves! Not the proponents of the Women's centre.
Secondly I just walked by the posters in the MSU, I think the HUGE list of universities/colleges who already have a women's centre is sending out a controversially strong message to the women on campus. Just right now there were two girls shaking their heads reading "that" poster. They way it is situated makes McMaster look rather gender biased.

Yes, those other schools have women's centers, but do they have all the other services that the MSU offers to those individuals in lieu of the center.

I am very temped right now to replace those posters with the messages in this forum. They are bias and aimed at making MSU look bad, when really, it was the student population that "failed" them.

I read the posters, and the flyers afterwards, and I decided that why would I want to support people like this. Frankly, I didn't vote, but if the referedum was brought forth again, I would vote no.

[collymolotov]

of course this is a problem, building a "safe spot" for women on campus obviously excludes men.

why not build, side by side with the womens center, a "mens center" where dudes and dudes only are welcome to kick back and just, well, be manly?

two sides of the same coin...putting in a womens center and ignoring the right of men for their own equivalent center is blatant exclusion and proof that that the politically correct elite run the show here at mac. I'm actually kind of alarmed that nobody has pointed it out yet.

Plenty of school clubs at mac are based inherently on discrimination and exclusion but nobody raises a fuss. Most are ethnically based which serves only to remind students of their differences and does not encourage our diverse student body to assimilate, but rather to segregate itself in student life (in some cases.) Were I to found a "mcmaster caucasian society" I would be branded as a racist, when an african or asian based student group would raise no eyelids.

There are obviously more men at mcmaster than transgendered individuals yet they lack any kind of support services. Just as well, most of the curriculum here seems designed to emasculate the Canadian male even further...

the only people marginalized at mcmaster, like anywhere in canadian society these days, are white men. everyone else legally falls into protected groups at school and in the workplace. in the US this is called affirmative action. I call it prejudice, racism, and exclusionism.

Consider the needs of the majority before the minority. I don't see why my student fees, which fund the MSU should fund the needs of any group when my own goes on being marginalized.

[JeffB]

Yes there are plenty of cultural clubs part of the MSU, however they are not allowed to exclude members. I may be a white biology student but I am still allowed to join the Chinese engineering society, I may not fit into the group but there is nothing they can do to stop me from joining.

With the women's center however it is exclusionary because it wont allow men to use the service. And i am sure if you had a good enough lawyer you could get one shut down for that reason (based on the fact that the MSU doesn't discriminate), or open up a mens center.

I agree with you that white men are being discriminated against in an effort to be extra diverse. A commonly used example is the RCMP, many years ago the force was more or less completely white male. They had to diversify the force so they started to hire people of different race/sex. The problem is now the people who are retiring are white males, so to maintain their diverse workforce they have to hire more white males then a few years ago. (sorry i am not in cultural studies so that is probably not all PC and everything.)

[kokosas]

Originally Posted by collymolotov

two sides of the same coin...putting in a womens center and ignoring the right of men for their own equivalent center is blatant exclusion and proof that that the politically correct elite run the show here at mac. I'm actually kind of alarmed that nobody has pointed it out yet.
.

This has been brought up several times actually, just on different threads. Click here for another article regarding the Womens Centre

[AndrewC]

Although I understand what you are saying there are a few comments I would like to make...

"why not build, side by side with the womens center, a "mens center" where dudes and dudes only are welcome to kick back and just, well, be manly?"

Why not. The great thing about the MSU is that it provides a unique opportunity for all students to achieve whatever they want. I think we often look for a purpose to the MSU and we often criticize what they do however one can undoubtedly say that a fundamental principle that the MSU's accomplishes every year is providing students with the opportunity to accomplish whatever they dream of. I agree that men of all types have very unique problems and issues, just as women do. The solution, make a plan, and if it is something you feel is not covered by a pre-existing service, then what is stopping you?

"Were I to found a "mcmaster caucasian society" I would be branded as a racist, when an african or asian based student group would raise no eyelids."

Do you know this for sure. The point which was made by JeffB is that you cannot exclude anyone from that club. An african or asian club is there to celebrate their unique cultures and history, if you wish to make one for caucasians, then by all means make a club.

"There are obviously more men at mcmaster than transgendered individuals yet they lack any kind of support services. Just as well, most of the curriculum here seems designed to emasculate the Canadian male even further"

A lawsuit was filed a number of years back by the EEOC against Hooters for hiring only women to be servers. They eventually dropped the suit because no men cared. If you see a problem, then do something about it. Start a club, offer a men's centre. And if the men at McMaster care, then you will have support.

"Consider the needs of the majority before the minority. I don't see why my student fees, which fund the MSU should fund the needs of any group when my own goes on being marginalized."

That is why we have referndums and that is why the women's centre failed. It was not an MSU initiative, it was a group of students who saw a need and acted on it. Like i mentioned previously, if you want a men's centre, then get the signatures, hold a referendum and let's see what the majority thinks.

[FireDragoonX]

Originally Posted by JeffB

Yes there are plenty of cultural clubs part of the MSU, however they are not allowed to exclude members. I may be a white biology student but I am still allowed to join the Chinese engineering society, I may not fit into the group but there is nothing they can do to stop me from joining.

I tried joining asian focus, when I asked them if I could, the people at the table started talking in moonspeak and ignored me. ;_;