http://m.thestar.com/#!/gta/redirect/fcc444ec1d5086e712d9a 41be6312e2d

A York University student who refused to do group work with women for religious reasons has sparked a human rights tug-of-war between a professor and campus administration.

While the professor wanted to deny the student’s request, a university dean ordered him to comply.

Professor Paul Grayson is now blowing the whistle on what he sees as a hierarchy of freedoms at York — religious rights trumping women’s rights.

“In order to meet an instance of a religious requirement we have tacitly accepted a negative definition of females,” Grayson told the Star. “That’s not acceptable.”

The brouhaha began in September when a student in an online sociology class emailed Grayson about the class’s only in-person requirement: a student-run focus group.

“One of the main reasons that I have chosen internet courses to complete my BA is due to my firm religious beliefs,” the student wrote. “It will not be possible for me to meet in public with a group of women (the majority of my group) to complete some of these tasks.”

While Grayson’s gut reaction was to deny the request, he forwarded the email to the faculty’s dean and the director for the centre for human rights.

Their response shocked him; the student’s request was permitted.

The reasoning was apparently that students studying abroad in the same online class were given accommodations, and allowed to complete an alternative assignment.

Thoughts?

The link didn't work for me. Does he not believe in cooty shots?

Andrew, here's another link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ersy-1.2490514


What kind of religion is this? I don't understand the reasons for it or how the student lives his life. Will he be able to find a job that has all male co-workers?

If it was just him and one other girl, I could somehow almost come to understand how this "religion" would not want a man to be sexually tempted, but in a group of both guys and girls?

I also don't think these customs should be referred to as "religion".
People don't really know what religion is any more.
I feel really bad for people who are so brainwashed that they would genuinely believe that speaking to a member of the opposite sex will offend the God(s)

Political correctness taken too far

well they already said the name of the religion without actually saying the name. apparently that's okay in todays society and its not discrimination.

To me, calling this student's motivations "religious reasons" is the same as calling honour killings a religious practice.

I am frankly flabbergasted at this student's claim that his religion forbids him from interacting with women, as well as his wish to get accommodated for it - the fact that he holds these beliefs is on its own quite concerning. However, when the prof told him that his request was denied, he didn't push the issue.

If he is Muslim (which is my understanding of the situation), it is my understanding that Muslims are supposed to abide by the laws of wherever they are living, according to Islamic law. This student appears to be doing that, which significantly alters my opinion of these events, and I appreciate that the prof is emphasizing that the student is not a zealot and has accepted the decision with good grace.

I think the main issue now is that the prof could get in trouble for going against human rights rules, as well as debate over whether or not the school was right to originally tell the prof to allow the request.
As I said earlier, I believe that the principles used to allow the request are similar to those that people use to justify honour killings. Of course, there is the obvious difference that nobody is being harmed by the student's request (except, perhaps, himself).

I do not know the reasoning behind this student's belief that he cannot interact with women, but I hope that working with them on the project will show him that it is possible to interact with members of the opposite sex with no harm being done. I seriously doubt that will be the case, but I can hope. In the end, though, I don't think any good will come out of this...and I also don't think any good would have come out of allowing his request, either.

Just wait until the idea gets caught on, and every single race, religion, nation, or other visible minority group will be demanding its rights to be respected, and when the politicians say "no", you will have this strong notion of discrimination in this country.

That's the price you pay for multiculturalism.

Here's an example. Apparently during the cold weather lately, heating lines were being repaired, and a daughter of an elderly woman bound to her bed started up this shit storm about the gas company not notifying her. Which apparently they did, using the automatic calling system. Now, if I remember correctly, the woman, who's Latino, was concerned, among other things, about the calls being in English.

I am sorry, but when you move into this country, you are expected to speak either English or French. And the idea of her actually questioning that, means that she absolutely gives 0 shits about the laws, or at least the requirements for citizenship here. But apparently in a democratic and libertarian society we are all supposed to be accepting and loving each other and shit, which of course means everyone can move here and start pressing their rules.

Personally, without disputing anything about the right to religion I think sexism is wrong. Like it feels so archaic. Have we not evolved as a society? I don't understand the mentality that can somehow interpret such extremist beliefs. Do females not exist anywhere on earth except his class?

I think civil liberties trump religion.

Originally Posted by MrPlinkett

Just wait until the idea gets caught on, and every single race, religion, nation, or other visible minority group will be demanding its rights to be respected, and when the politicians say "no", you will have this strong notion of discrimination in this country.

That's the price you pay for multiculturalism.

Here's an example. Apparently during the cold weather lately, heating lines were being repaired, and a daughter of an elderly woman bound to her bed started up this shit storm about the gas company not notifying her. Which apparently they did, using the automatic calling system. Now, if I remember correctly, the woman, who's Latino, was concerned, among other things, about the calls being in English.

I am sorry, but when you move into this country, you are expected to speak either English or French. And the idea of her actually questioning that, means that she absolutely gives 0 shits about the laws, or at least the requirements for citizenship here. But apparently in a democratic and libertarian society we are all supposed to be accepting and loving each other and shit, which of course means everyone can move here and start pressing their rules.

I do hate it when people can move here and start pressing their rules. Like they're Christopher Columbus or something...

I do hate it when people can move here and start pressing their rules. Like they're Christopher Columbus or something...

Columbus had the power of gunpowder to call his shots around.

Our government lets the foreigners in, and ensures that their laws, traditions, religious views and whatever are supported and protected. So they give them something to use against us. Western civilization is really is self destructive.

Originally Posted by Amardeep_S

I do hate it when people can move here and start pressing their rules. Like they're Christopher Columbus or something...

European colonists came to the new world and established european societies, not european enclaves within aboriginal tribes.
Plinkett is pretty much right on the money, forceful displacement of natives is older than humanity itself and is just a form of natural selection.
Allowing, and even encouraging, your own culture to be displaced however is a new concept and for the life of me I cannot comprehend the desire behind it.

Originally Posted by shes-a-diva*

Personally, without disputing anything about the right to religion I think sexism is wrong. Like it feels so archaic. Have we not evolved as a society? I don't understand the mentality that can somehow interpret such extremist beliefs. Do females not exist anywhere on earth except his class?

I think civil liberties trump religion.

I completely agree. However, I don't think that this student's request violates female students' freedom of anything. If his request was permitted, how would anybody have been harmed?

The thing that confuses me is that my instinctive reaction is that the student's request is both ridiculous and unreasonable, and should NOT be allowed in this society...but when I really really think hard about it, I can't really see why the request would be denied, other than the professor deciding that he disagrees with the student's beliefs. From a legal and human rights standpoint, that reason is not valid.

I disagree with the student's beliefs also. But if I was in the prof's position, is there any other reason (besides my own beliefs) why I should not grant the request? I can't think of one.
You can argue that it's for the student's own good because he lives in a co-ed world and will have to interact with women throughout the course of his life...but that's the student's problem and not the university's place to dictate/get involved in.

The media always seems to focus on the negatives when it comes to this religion or the middle east in its entirety.

Because of the negative media attention this religion has been getting for a long time now, people obviously have a very wrong and negative idea about the religion. The responses in this thread, except a few, prove that. Just look at the post below, which is insulting to say the least.

Originally Posted by Atheist?

...I am not surprised that there are a few people in the religion who feel simply interacting with women on a professional level is too tempting for them not to commit rape or assault

First the rape in india thread, and now this thread. Both obviously have a very similar targeted message to two different groups of people. If this is what MacInsider has become, then I'll be damned.


Anyways, I'll let you all go back to continue bashing the religion. While you're at it, why not continue to look for more news that unfairly represent a whole wide group of people because of the action of a few radicals and extremists?