I vote we say no way, until we have a legitimate percentage of the population vote

...couldnt they even do this on webct?

The voting process should definitely be done online. Walking out to a specified location on campus may not be something people want to do but a simple click online wouldn't kill people.

They organize and e-mail all residence people a link to their CA evaluation. I imagine they could do the same, just on a larger scale for an election. Set up a simple ballot, either ranking or click one block, mass e-mail it out to all students, put up posters around the school reminding people to take one minute out of their day to check the e-mail and vote.

Everyone has a McMaster e-mail, it's not like you'd have to sign up for it or anything. If you still don't want to participate it's not like it will harm you to have to delete the e-mail.

Actually, about the specified locations, I think they really try to put it in a place where most people from the faculty will probably pass by anyway. (e.g. Mills for Humanities, BSB for Science, DBAC for Kin) So that people might just say "oh...I may as well vote while I pass by". Of course, that doesn't always happen.

Online voting would be pretty efficient & paper-saving, but there could potentially be bugs and other technical problems, or people cheating the system.

There were maybe 10-15 unaffiliated people at the debates...

I think the answer to your question is both.

I am not saying whether I think this is good or bad that Vishal won, he is a good guy so will we have to see what he does, but what I wonder, is if either Dave Moore or Joey Coleman can give us an idea of the last time an outsider won MSU president. Because in three years I have seen a VP Admin, an SRA Science, and a VP Education get "promoted" to president. I am not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but I just want to know how plausible it is for an outsider to come in and win.

Originally Posted by DavidR

Surprise! Why do we even bother holding elections? Stupid ideas and MSU insiders always take it... glad I'm graduating. Enjoy another year of the same, all!

While it's true that a full-time MSU vice-president has won 8 of the last 9 MSU presidential elections, historically, there are ample examples of qualified and ultimately successful candidates coming from "outside" the SRA to win the MSU presidency. As examples, I note MES president Michael Kukhta (1986), and IRC presidents Suzan Fraser (1988) and Jason Hunt (1993).

The student body typically looks for some degree of demonstrated student leadership experience. In my observation, the MSU membership generally elects the right person for the time, the SRA elects vice-presidents with skill sets that support areas where the president-elect may not be as strong, and perhaps to a degree, the times wrap around the executive that is elected.

If you haven't had a chance, have a look at the open letter to the president-elect from Ian Finlay published on page 2 of yesterday's issue of The Silhouette. It's good advice all members of the next MSU executive --- indeed any incoming student leaders --- would be wise to take to heart.

Perhaps if classes weren't scheduled all over the place that would be a good idea.

I'm in Humanities and this term I'm over in BSB for majority of my time.

That said campus isn't really that big, it's not like it's a hassle for me to walk to Mills from anywhere on campus and spend a minute or so voting.

I also have no idea what could possibly be done to make people more informed about the issues and the candidates platforms. I keep hearing that people don't know enough about it and I can't help but what to say that they clearly aren't trying to know about it.

The info isn't going to slap you in the face or fall in your lap but it's not that hard to seek it out. Sufficient info about the candidates platforms and the major issues was printed in the Sil over the campaign period, there are places to pick up a copy of the Sil all over campus. The candidates were allowed Facebook groups and websites this year too, don't tell me you're not already on Facebook. Why not make good use of the time you're spending on Facebook to list skim each candidates page? Then of course there is MacInsiders which imo far too many people don't know or care about. It's a very useful source of information, even people in upper years. The posters plastered all over the school won't tell you about the issues and the platforms but even a little reading will.

This is a University not and entire Country so it's not as if there are hundreds of complex issues. There are issues but you could easily take in enough information to make an informed vote in 30 minutes. Read a Sil article, visit a few Facebook pages and vote. That's all it takes.

It's not as if the MSU President doesn't affect students, it really does. As has been made very clear over the last week or so the MSU controls a lot of student affairs and money. You're spending thousands to come here and a portion of that is going to the MSU, don't you want someone who is going to spend that money wisely?

Originally Posted by AndrewC

There were maybe 10-15 unaffiliated people at the debates...

I think the answer to your question is both.

I am not saying whether I think this is good or bad that Vishal won, he is a good guy so will we have to see what he does, but what I wonder, is if either Dave Moore or Joey Coleman can give us an idea of the last time an outsider won MSU president. Because in three years I have seen a VP Admin, an SRA Science, and a VP Education get "promoted" to president. I am not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but I just want to know how plausible it is for an outsider to come in and win.

Marc Marzotto won in 2000. He was Commerce Society president and just completing two years a student representative on the University Senate. While Marc was on the SRA in 1998-99, he was not one of the "MSU insiders" in the 2000 presidential race.

I use the term "outsider" as just someone unaffiliated with the MSU executive or SRA.

Thank you. I ask this not to play entirely off of the "MSU insider" angle but instead the ability for those to come in and run a successful campaign. I ask this because in the short campaign period that is allotted, and to those who are not a VP and have full-time school duties it is difficult to put in the same kind of campaign commitment. In addition, the most politically active students are usually affiliated with the SRA and thus I feel that those who have an affiliation with them usually benefit from a very strong campaign team. With debates being as inneffective as they are it seems that whoever has the stronger campaign team wins, and in past years I have seen that perhaps it isn't necessarily what you say but instead how many people you have saying it.

Last year showed promised with Jeremy Jones and Joel Leavitt coming very close to winning however, they were both very popular and I would assert that their successes were heavily do to their campaign teams as well. I see it as extremely difficult if not near impossible for an unattached student, who is not as popular as the aformentioned 2 or have the support of the SRA during the campaign to win the presidency, even if they were the most qualified candidate.

Originally Posted by nh999

Online voting would be pretty efficient & paper-saving, but there could potentially be bugs and other technical problems, or people cheating the system.

https://elections.mcmaster.ca /voter/index.cfm

The school already uses it for Senate... I don't see why it wouldn't work for the MSU. I'm working with UTS to get it suitable for MES elections. We see ~70% turnout amongst first years for the first year elections when it's done on WebCT vs about 4% in our general elections (paper based).

I appreciate Andrew's analysis and I substantially agree with his points about full-time student executives having one less thing [academics] weighing on them. He is also right about strength of campaign team --- but the candidate's message is also critically important.

I've watched 27 MSU presidential campaigns unfold and let me assure you, candidates not strongly affiliated with the SRA or MSU departments have made very strong [and in several cases successful] runs at the presidency.

Strong candidacies (1st or 2nd place) that come to mind include Gord Stirrett (1983, won in 1984), Roger Batchelor (won in 1985), IRC president Tracey Foster (1987), MES president Michael Kukhta (won in 1986), IRC president Suzan Fraser (won in 1988), sorority president Sandra Moncrief (1991), IRC president Jason Hunt (won in 1993), IRC president Ralph Robinson (1994), Augustus Cadette (1998), Commerce Society president and senator Marc Marzotto (won in 2000), Shano Mohan (2002, won in 2003), SOCS president Peter Topalovic (2004, lost by one vote), Derek Kropman (2005), Bill Brown (2006), Tyler Andrews (2007), Jerimi Jones and Joel Leavitt (2008 - 2nd place depending on which count you are looking at). Most of these people had never been on the SRA (Batchelor, Marzotto and Topalovic each briefly).

When did MacInsiders become 4Chan?

Oh wait.

Hi Stefanie,

There's a fine line in MSU presidential platforms between wishful thinking and lofty goals that are attainable. When everyone on Vishal's team sat down to write up the platform, we looked at solutions that can be enacted within a timeframe of a year.

Unfortunately, you believe that it's all the same, however, many candidates neglected to acknowledge the incoming Comptroller and Food/Beverage Manager positions that will aid the President in maintaining accountability while fixing the MSU. Vishal's presence as an "insider" may have been an advantage in terms of knowing the existence/hiring of these employees, however, a full internal review of all MSU services/procedures can now be completed.

It's lamentable that you presume Vishal will merely forget students during his term in office. However, if it happens, I implore the future SRA to keep his communication platform points at the top of his agenda. Nevertheless, he's demonstrated throughout the campaign that he's going to utilize Tiwtter/Facebook to keep students informed about where he is. There are also concrete plans now for a website containing all his platform ideas, a checklist, and an area where Vishal can write how he fulfilled these goals.

I'm sorry that Vishal has generated such vitriol from you, however, he has not even started his term of office. It's brazen speculation that you would think he'll merely omit all undergraduates at McMaster when he finally takes office.

And does popularity necessitate a horrible platform? I don't believe so. It's a truly attainable list of goals that was amended when students voiced that certain parts of it were ineffectual or folly.

Nonetheless, I'm glad you're invested in student politics. If you're sick of the system, join the SRA or at least come to our meetings and voice your opinion.

Originally Posted by sew12

It's unfortunate more people didn't read/follow the advice Joey Coleman gave in his opinion piece for the Sil's special Election edition on Tuesday. I felt it made valid points and pointed out the best choices for people who don't want more of the same.

With turn out so low though it's obvious no one even cared enough to attempt to vote for someone who isn't the same old MSU insider.

It'd be interesting to really look at the numbers too. If the turn out really was only 2500 how many in that already small group were campaign team members for a certain candidate, friends of a candidate, SRA members, other people currently involved with the MSU etc? I'd be willing to bet a very small number. For the most part it seems only people who are directly involved seem to give a damn.

It's unfortunate since it really is an issue that affects us given all the fees and losses that were talked about during the campaign.

Vishal's platform was pretty unappealing to me and barely even tried to hide the fact that it will be more of the same. His answers to questions at the "debates" it what he wrote for the Sil made this even more clear.

I wanted something different and I voted for someone different at the very least, it's unfortunate that other students either a)don't care enough, b)aren't informed enough or c)both.

Casey Park, what did you think of Joey Coleman's article on Vishal?


"he's demonstrated throughout the campaign that he's going to utilize Tiwtter/Facebook to keep students informed about where he is."

cool bro

Originally Posted by steps2health

Casey Park, what did you think of Joey Coleman's article on Vishal?

In the Silhouette?

To be honest, I perused it once and didn't pay heed to it since I was working on Vishal's messages during the campaign.

I'd be glad to read it again, though. However, the Sil site doesn't have a direct link to it.